San Angelo City Council 2-20-18

[0:00:00] And we will call the meeting to order. The mayor has checked her cell phone, it is turned off. And so, if everybody else would check their cell phones and make sure they're turned off, that would be terrific. Thank you. Silver Street please come up. And he is an ordained minister serving at San Angelo First Assembly of God. And he is our Assistant Water Director of the City of San Angelo. So, Lance, if you'll take a look, please. Please stand. Let's pray. Finally, Father, we just thank you for this great opportunity we have today. We thank you for everyone that's here. Lord, we thank you for this opportunity we have to serve our city and to make directions and decisions for our city. Lord, I just ask that your blessing will be upon our decisions today. It'll, blessings will be upon the entire city that Lord, you will continue to just rain down your blessings. You will bless not only the people here at the city, but also all of the staff. you will continue to have unity as we move ahead in the directions in the future. And Lord, when we leave this place, we will know that your hand has been part of every decision and every blessing from above. In your name we pray, amen. Today to lead us in prayer, Keith Manship from the second grade, Christoval, and he's gonna lead us in our pledges. He's just to apply how the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands,

[0:02:02] one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. On this day, we have one indivisible. Our proclamations today, we will start by recognizing the contributions of the late Reverend Floyd Crider. Is anyone from his family here today or from his church or from any organization, So if you'd please come forward. Whereas the citizens of the City of San Angelo are fortunate to live in a community of people that have grown in our openness and are steadfast in our diversity. And whereas, because of incidents in the past, representatives of the local unit, NAACP, approached the city with a request to speak to the need for public and private discourse that was careful not to denigrate or humiliate any group or element in the City of San Angelo. And whereas while we as a community acknowledge our successes, we recognize there is always room to improve. And whereas the inclusiveness in our community would not have been possible without the leadership of many people, including the late Reverend Floyd Crider.

[0:04:05] And whereas Reverend Crider believed and often reminded us that we do it better when we do it together. and whereas a diverse community of mutual respect and openness benefits each and every citizen in the city of San Angelo and contributes to a vibrant business environment. Therefore, I, Brenda Gunter, mayor of the city of San Angelo, Texas, on behalf of the city council, do hereby proclaim that the city of San Angelo recognizes the contributions that the late Reverend Floyd Crider made to our community and asks every person, business, and governmental entity to work together to continue his work by engaging in a respectful language, practices, and opportunities that are sensitive to the unique and diverse population of our city. Calhoun, good morning. The NAACP would like to thank the city of San Angelo for partnering with us to attempt to avert a situation that had potential danger to the image of the St. Angelo community. Although Reverend Crider was not a part of this venture, I'm sure he would have been proud and agreed with the avenue that we took and the success that we had. He was famous for saying what your plan? Well, this was a situation where a good plan came to fruit and I think the city for their support in this matter. I need to connect all the dots to understand some things and it's totally

[0:06:06] appropriate that this proclamation that speaks to the need for civility and respect and a larger community of folks who care for each other also honors Reverend cried her. It was my wife and my self's blessing to be for 20 years close friends to all of the family, including Cheryl here who would sing for us in a minute if I didn't, if I ask her. But the thing is that Floyd was uniquely suited to speak to this issue. Over the last 20 years, he and I and Garland and other people for the NAACP, WTOS and Galilee development corporation have worked for many many issues that had to do with justice and equity and well-being of people in the community and Floyd spoke passionately for everything that he believed. He was persevering and he was passionate when he spoke and so it's natural that there were areas of controversy and contention and sometimes some heated debate and sometimes people or groups of people spoke to them and about him in ways that were hurtful and that were totally inappropriate, but he never, ever retaliated. Not once in those 20 years did I ever hear Floyd Crowder speak to or about another person with honoring the respect they were due and treating their dignity as what all of us need and want. And so that was because of who he was, because he believed with his whole heart that every person he met was a sister or a brother, and all the people that he met were in the same family because we're all children of God. And so this proclamation at this particular moment in history, not in our community, but through our whole country, is especially important, because sometimes we call tacky to each other in ways that's just not right. Lloyd is an example of what we can be when we stand for important things that may be controversial,

[0:08:09] but do it with the dignity that's allowed every human being. And so we thank you for this proclamation. Morning, all. I'm going to keep it in short and brief. I encourage each one of you, young and old, especially these central, these central shirts that I see central as near and dear to his heart, to you high schoolers. You know he was an integral part at Central High School, and you know he always said, what's your plan? Now that you have a plan, work your plan, work your plan with peace, and most of all, dignity and love, because that's what the cops was about. And I encourage you all, young to old, if you have a plan, work it, and work it with love. Good morning. I'm Cheryl Crider. I'm his wife and I spent awesome 22 years with my husband and I would see him come home sometimes for Lauren and he would leave out happy and return just sad. He says you know it's sad to see that the community is really trying to separate itself. But knowing Floyd, he had a plan and he worked his plan and it always worked out wonderful. One thing that he was really proud of was his students. He loved his students. He would always have on his board, what's your plan? If he didn't work plan A, you have plan B, because sometimes plan A didn't work out. So always have a backup plan young people. But my husband loved the community. He loved what it was about. He loved

[0:10:10] the city. And you know, when he moved here, it was just awesome to see how he flourished in everything he did. He had one person behind him and that was God. If you know God, always go to him first. He will lead you and direct you in the path you should go and always remember, have a plan and work that plan. Students, look and listen to your counselors. If you have problem say wait a minute we got to go back because something doesn't work out he always helped kids get into college he wanted every student to go to college work with your counselors make sure you have a plan that will work to get you into your college of preference and also to the council members thank you so much for making this possible. N-A-A-A-C-T, thank you. Mayor, thank you very much. We the family of Floyd Crout, thanks you very much. Next we are going to have a

[0:12:19] proclamation or recognition of Central High School cheerleaders. They were first and second finishes at the National Cheerleaders Association so would all of you with your great central chief sweatshirts on come forward please. Here's a reason to stand up and holler the San Angel Central High School cheerleaders are national champions. The 26th student squad brought home to the top title in the fight song event at the 2018 National Cheerleaders Association's senior and junior high School National Championship Competition January 28 in Dallas. Central's cheer squad won the fight song title on its way to earning the overall national runner-up title. Central's proud cheerleading tradition dates back to the 1960s. The angry orange cheer has competed in the National Championships, a whopping 15 times. Coached by Matt Esquieu, whose trademark sharp and clean technique shapes the team. Central cheer was also the national runner up in two events. The Bobcats play second in crowd leading cheer and in timeout dance. The performances can still be watched at varsitytv.com.

[0:14:19] Therefore, I, Brenda Guncher, Mayor of the City of San Angelo, on behalf of the City Council, do hereby recognize and applaud the Central High School cheerleading squad for their achievement and positive determination to make a difference in our community. Congratulations. Oh yeah, a little bit. On the point, length, length, that, in the ground. That's real for you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Tom's talking about you up here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Woo. Go team. Mayor, I think they want to throw you up in the air and catch you. Hey, I'm a longtime cheerleader myself, so I felt like I was right with the crowd. I don't think I was as good as they were, though. Next, we have a proclamation declaring February 18th, 2018 as benevolent and protective order of Elks Day. Do I have members from the Elks Club

[0:16:22] here today? If so, please come forward. Anybody else from the Elks Club? Okay, the benevolent and protective order of ELLX was established 150 years ago with a commitment to selflessly serve others across this great nation and in cities with ELLX lodges and the ELLX dedicate themselves to charity, justice, and patriotism by investing millions of hours each year building stronger communities, assisting homeless veterans and steering use away from harmful behavior and toward productive lives and St. Angel's elks, lodging bodies and embraces this proud tradition by contributing to the community through programs to help the hungry, donations for disaster relief, financial support for summer camps for special needs children, drug awareness and activities for youth, and programs that assist the military and veterans. Therefore, I, Brenda Gunter, Mayor of the City of San Angelo, Texas, on behalf of the City Council, do hereby proclaim February 16, 2018, as Benevolent and Protective Order of Elk State. In San Angelo, Texas, and call upon all citizens to honor the members of San Angelo, Elk's Lodge, 1880, and the many good works they attend to in our community. Hello, everyone. My name is Hector Villescaz. I'm the president of the Elks Lodge. I'd like to thank the city for this honor. It is an honor to help the children of our community, especially the children with special needs.

[0:18:25] It's an honor to help our military and our veterans, especially our winded warriors and our homeless veterans. And it is an honor to help the city and other needs, especially in defeating the hungry. So City Council and the Honorable Mayor Brenda Gunter, we thank you for this honor. Thank you. As Mayor Prote and I get to present this to our Mayor Brenda Gunter for recognition of Mayor Brenda Gunter's receipt of the Air Force Community Partnership Excellence and Program Leadership plaque on behalf of the City of San Angelou. It's great to receive this award twice and one week With great honor, I was able to attend a military conference in San Diego this past weekend where San Angela was one of four cities that was honored for their support and constant work to keep Goodfield Air Force Base as one of the most important bases in the United States of America. It was a privilege for me because I feel like I learned a lot. I was proud to do it and I want I want to thank all of the community, the community partners, the City of St. Angelo, Coast DC for all the work, support and effort that they have put in to making sure that Goodfell Air Force Base will always be a part of this great community. Thank you.

[0:21:19] At this point, we will go into public comment, issues or items that are not on the agenda may be raised by the public at this time. Citizens should speak from the podium, begin by stating their name, and limit remarks to less than three minutes. Council members may request that a discussed item be placed on a future agenda. The council takes public comment on all regular agenda items during the discussion of those items. Do I have anyone who would like to come forward and make public comment today? Morning Mayor and Council. I would like to request that you pull of item F from the from an agenda and place it on regular agenda. I'd like to hear more about this $75,000 10% down on a on a sunken park. Thank you very much. Any other public comment? If you're here to speak about any issues on the regular agenda, we will take those comments during the regular agenda items. So at this point, we just want hear about anything outside the context of what's on the agenda if we could please or if there's anything on the consent agenda that you'd like to speak to all right with that being said we will close the public comment and we will move into the consent agenda and I will ask each of the council members if they want to pull anything from the consent consent agenda and I'm going to start with billy now nothing to pull lane item e item e Lucy Tommy no ma'am Tom no ma'am Harry no ma'am okay with that we will pull item e and f so do I have a motion to

[0:23:29] approve the consent agenda with the exception of E&F approved with that motion approved and seconded we'll take a vote all in favor all right passes 7-0 we will now go into item e which is consider approving a professional services agreement for veterinarian services with Conchill Valley pause in the amount of $50 per pet and authorizing city manager to execute all related So what's before you today is an opportunity, right now we're paying private practice rates through an external veterinarians at their availability to schedule appointments, and instead we're looking to bring that in-house to use the asset at the shelter, which is the surgery suite that was developed with donated dollars and to be able to contract with pause, who's then subcontracting with veterinarians to provide that service for as well as rabies vaccination for adoptable pets. Then do you have comments? Yeah, could we as a city not do the same thing? I believe we've made attempts to do that, and it had mixed results. I'm going to read this last paragraph in our background. Pause in the veterinarians retain discretion and judgment in the manner methods and means performing duties under the agreement. This includes but is not limited to pause, right to prescribe, and diagnose in accordance with their professional judgment. The city has no right to control or determine the means or methods used by pause. I'm in highly disagreeance with this. If we're going to be contracting anything through the city with any outside firm that we're going to be giving monetary value to, we need a little say so in it. When we have no right to control or determine the means or methods used by pause, that's taking that out and giving one entity more control of our shelter than we have ourselves.

[0:25:33] So I'm going to make a motion to not approve this. I would speak to the paragraph right before that which prescribes exactly what pause will do. So there are parameters set forth for what we're asking them to coordinate with their subcontractors. They will be responsible for those expenses for the supplies and consumables for the surgery very sweet, as well as determining which animals will be going forward for a spay-neuter. So to speak to the parameters that they're operating under would be that the veterinarians will provide services to adoptable animals, which would be up to pause to determine to administer or directly supervise the administration of the rabies vaccine to perform all aspects of sterilization surgeries, including but not limited to. So we really spell out what we're looking for there that there would be pre-surgical physical examination so that a sick animal or an injured animal does not go forward for for surgery which could complicate the animal's health, administering pre-surgery and aesthetics, post-operative recovery care and monitoring, providing post-operative pain medication, advising as to animal discharge care and complication instructions, respond to post-surgical inquiries and or complications related to sterilization surgery. So, they have to meet those things first. Hey, I ask you, do we have a city ordinance that states all animals adopted from the animal's shelter shall be sprayed or spayed or neutered and microchip prior to release. Correct, and so when animals are adopted by the shelter, they're in a foster to adopt program until they're actually spaced. So we're not releasing them from our care until the animals are spayed, neutered and rabies vaccinated. But I know at the last meeting, we had lots of concerns about animals, about people who signed up to adopt these animals. And their appointments were made at veterinarian clinics, of which these people did not show up for their appointments, or that there was a certain amount of people who didn't show up for these appointments. So in essence, we are allowing an adoption to happen,

[0:27:33] knowing that they're not spayed and neutered before they leave our facility. And we don't have a great mechanism to follow up and make sure that people attended these appointments and made sure that they had the animals. The mechanism I described at the last meeting about the checks and balances that are in place to ensure that those spay neuters happen, we have a great confidence in. But taking this in advance of the adoption and going ahead and spaying and neutering rabies vaccinating adoptable pens in advance of the action would speak to that lag time between when the animal leaves the shelter under a foster program to when the animal is ultimately spayed neutered. So one, we have a great confidence in the process that's working right now to this would further improve it even better that the animals are spade neutered on the premises before there's even an adopter in place. Would you better define what the $50 buys us? In other words, if a $50 apply to every animal that's brought into the animal's shelter, obviously some of them would have already had a rabies shot, would have already been spade, would have already been neutered. And so we're not saying that this $50 applies to all pets, but applies to only certain amount of pets. Right. Pets identified under this agreement, so when they're identified for spay-neuter surgery and they go into the veterinary services component of this agreement. So if an animal arrives and is not adoptable, we are not charged $50 for that. That's our pet. If an animal arrives and is already altered, already rabies vaccinated, that would not be this. If an animal leaves under a rescue transfer, and there's no cash in to pay for that, but there's also no expense on our part to do that, the receiving agency is responsible for that. to walk through a common example, for example, I have a dog come in, we adopted out for $85, $65 of that adoption fee is placed in a liability account, a holding account to ultimately pay for that animal's spay, neuter surgery. The spay, neuter surgery oftentimes exceeds that $65, and so we're scrambling to make sure that that gets funded. In addition to that, for a cat,

[0:29:36] for example, the adoption fee for a cat is $50. We don't recommend any increases to our adoption but the spainewter surgery for a cat is well in excess of $50, not to mention the rabies and microchip expense. So the private practice rates that we're paying with the veterinarians right now often exceeds our resources, bringing that down, especially if there are any complications associated with the spainewter surgery. So bringing that to a flat $50, male, female, anything related to where it's cat, dog, it's a flat rate, both for the spainewter as well as the rabies vaccination, brings the cost more in line with what our fee structure set up to collect. We have historical information, cost information or projected information as it relates to what these veterinarian services might have cost us in prior years. Correct, it's well and it's in excess of $50 per pet. Space surgeries are as much as $300 per pet. It just depends on the complications with that animal. We have, does pause have any outstanding bills with veterinarians for services rendered and not paid? I couldn't speak to pause as accounting. And how, repeat again, how many adoptions failed last year? In other words, animals that we adopted out, but ended up coming back or ended up going to other animal protection agencies, if you will, because of lack of ownership by the adoptee. I don't think I could speak to that either. The animal, under the contract, if you adopt an animal through contra-valley pause, you have a responsibility, you're contractually obligated to bring that animal back to contra-valley pause. Does that happen? It does happen. How often? I couldn't speak to that. we don't keep a record of. Well, and to speak, that is under the adoption contract,

[0:31:38] and unfortunately that's not what's before you today. I don't wanna speak to your questions for sure, but having them stay neutered on the premises and rabies vaccinated in advance of adoption, I don't know would make the difference between an animal being returned from a failed adoption. Do we have anyone from Pause who might like to speak to some of these questions? Good morning, I'm Jenny Wilson from the Conchia Valley Pause. As far as some of the concerns that I've also seen on Facebook about other agencies taking in animals that were adopted through pause. We've reached out to those agencies and requested microchip numbers so that we could verify that those animals originated from us because we would absolutely take those animals back into our care and we have yet to receive that information from those entities. We don't have any statistical information to know. Well, I can tell you that we have a 7% annual return rate. So out of 1800 adoptions that we do in a year's time, there's a 7% return rate and we put those back through our foster program and it isn't our contract that when you adopt from Conto Valley Pause, given that this is a very unique relationship we have with a shelter, space is always an issue. So when we talk to our adopters, we tell them, you are making a commitment, you are adopting a pad and bringing them into your home. If for some reason this does not work and it is not a safety concern, then you are agreeing to hold the animal in your home until we can find foster placement or boarding placement for the animal. So that is within the contract that they sign. Do I have any further questions? I have one for Morgan. Please. What kind of relationship do we have just in general with the veterinary community through our association with them? Is it a good working relationship? Is it a tense relationship? What kind of relationship do we have? It's an adequate relationship for sure.

[0:33:38] We call, we ask for services that they render the services. What we're describing here is something that happens nationwide. When you have a high volume need for veterinary services, such as we do at the shelter, it's not uncommon that veterinarians would contract to do that at a low cost. There's been many incarnations of that over the years, and this is, I think, the latest success in that route, meaning that the city, with tax dollars, with donated dollars from pause, It's difficult to run, the volume that we run at private practice rates, okay? So what's most common in government shelters and nonprofits is to do a large volume rate with veterinarians that are willing to do so. That's not the situation we're in right now, it's not a situation we've been in for quite some time. So being able to come forward, I think, and have pause that has several veterinarians that are going to come under them as subcontractors is a huge move in the right direction. It gives me a tremendous amount of hope that we're moving in the right direction, that there are folks that are willing to say, hey, I'm going to give up a Saturday to come and do as many Spaniarders as I can do and pause this contract directly and coordinates with that. This contract is something that Pause has worked on for years, most diligently in the last year since they took on the adoption services contract. What's difficult is that you're looking for willing individuals to come forward in that lower cost rate to do the high volume and to do it in their downtime. So this is the solution to moving forward with our, with removing our pet overpopulation epidemic. Thanks, Morgan. Yes, please, Tom. Morgan, would going down this process help number one, get pets out better, faster, more efficiently, and also in a capability to where they meet the guidelines we want as far as they're vaccinated and they're altered? So let me just make sure I understand what this contract, professional services agreement states. It states that every animal that comes into the animal shelter

[0:35:40] will be reviewed to make sure that they have their rabies vaccination, that they're spayed and neutered. And if they're not, then this $50 will take care of that expense so that going forward every animal that comes into the shelter and leaves the shelter will be, in fact, spayed, neutered and their vaccinations done. I would say that's really close. It's not necessarily every animal coming into the shelter. There's a number of animals that come into the shelter that are redeemed by their owners. So it wouldn't enter this program. There are a number of animals that come into the shelter and are aggressive, injured, they're for a bike quarantine, whatever it may be. And so when you look at our intake numbers of 4,800 animals in fiscal year 17, I wouldn't say that each of those are going forward for this candidacy. what I would say is after they're passed their stray hold, after they're passed their owner hold, and pause identifies them as adoptable, that in advance of their adoption, we would go ahead and spay neuter and rabies vaccinate them. Now that may mean that some dogs we identify as maybe not the most adoptable dog. And so it doesn't get spay neuter, it doesn't get rabies vaccinated. But a very good Samaritan comes forward and says, I would like to adopt this dog. And we were like, really? We didn't identify it as the most adoptable pet. And at that point, we would arrange for spenut or to be done in the way that we're doing it now. So this gives us assurance that we don't have to worry going forward about whether someone signs up to adopt a pet, but does not show up for their appointment that was made at a veterinarian clinic. So this will be the approach to stop the not showing up at appointments to get the work done, or the treatment done for rabies, if that was a concern that folks are just going to miss their appointment and keep the animal, which we have a great confidence that that's not happening, that would remove that issue. I'm afraid it is happening, and I like the fact that this will help stop that process. So I think it's a good move to ensure that we take care of the animals as they're brought

[0:37:45] in if they have not been vaccinated, spade, or neutered. to speak to the issue of missed appointments, you know, we discussed in my last discussion with y'all that in the event that someone misses their appointment, we may contact them, we reschedule the appointment. If they missed their reschedule, we may contact with them and say you're out of compliance, you need to bring the animal back. Maybe four happened in that way in fiscal year 17, which was a partial contract year. One, escalated to a level where animal control reached out to the individual and in our capacity, we took the animal back in. So less than half a dozen animals came back in that way. now the veterinarians may report a greater number of missed appointments but it's look unfortunately we're adopting out puppies we're adopting out animals that we didn't know where they came from and so there's a number of animals that contract parvivirus and unfortunately pass away before their spanud or surgery and so there are dozens of those that have happened in the year so the veterinarians report that there's a missed appointment but we would report that there's not a compliance issue yes Lucy more we can what was the reason or the reason for putting in that last sentence about the city not having any rights controller determine the means or methods. What what what was that sentence that's actually a legal concern that these are medical services being provided to these doctors we are not are these animals we are not vets and we are going to let the vets make the determinations on all of those issues that are medically related. So as Morgan said that sentence is restricted to just those the performing of those services that are veterinary services. Lane Billy any further questions or comments. Anybody else on council have any further comments or questions from Morgan then do I have a motion on but I don't have a second on it and Lane's motion was to pull and not approve item e there's no second on that motion do I have another motion my commotion has

[0:39:45] written to approve is there a second Harry seconds that all in favor say I passes Yes, passes 6-1. Thank you, Morgan. Item F, which is consider ratifying a COSA DC resolution authorizing the use of sales and use tax funds and a sum not to exceed $75,000 for professional services required to develop design specifications and related construction documents for future improvements to the sunken garden park. And you're on, Bob. Good morning, Bob Schneiman, City's Economic Development Department. This item was approved by the coast of DC board at the last meeting. It is for funding of the engineering design only and it is considered an eligible project under section 505 of the local government code which is basically the economic development act. Carl White is here, the director of parks, if somebody has any specific questions about the project itself. Thank you. Carl, you want to come forward? Does Council have any questions of Carl or Bob on this item? My question is the following is very often we fund the engineering design elements for projects. What we don't have is a game plan for executing or paying for the design once it's done. So these designs sit on a shelf for years to come waiting for funds to in fact execute the great design engineering elements that go into this. So do we have, is there a game plan following the design of this project to be funded and executed? yes and Howard Taylor may be able to come up and help answer that but with the

[0:41:47] design we'll be able to know much better we right now we have cost estimates but with the design we'll have a lot more confidence with those costs are and with the designs we can show others who would be interested and we know who are interested in helping to fund the project exactly what we intend to build so knowing the cost will definitely help Howard would you like to come forward in comment please. Good morning. Good morning. I think that was a very reasonable question you asked, Mayor. I think I feel exactly the way you do. I'm familiar with some of those plans that sit on shelves and we don't want that to happen. The first thing is that the original proposal to Costa DC was a totally funded project with some commitment from the private sector and the museum. We already have made a commitment when I say we this really originated with private entity, Richard Salman, a businessman in this community who came to the museum and came with the idea of a sculpture competition national. We liked the idea, we had always wanted to do something like that through the museum but didn't have the resources. He has made a very substantial financial commitment to this, but it's also taken some money from museum itself directly. We have a lot of projects going on at the museum as you probably know. We are redeveloping what we're all been abandoned buildings on Oak Street and creating a mobile museum and a lot of other projects and so I want to emphasize that the museum is not a rich entity. We work hard. I'm a little blurry out because I was working on grants all last night and have three through this week. So to get more directly to your question I think that the better part of wisdom was rather than advocating for a fully funded project, let's find out where we're really going in terms of the design of this project so that we can put an accurate price

[0:43:47] to it. We did an estimate, an estimate that was kind of an educated one based on similar projects based on the size and some of the things that are going to be considered. The study that we are envisioning will mat, I think, necessarily bring forward all the ideas that are on the table, but among them are greater access for the public and handicap. That's just not the case currently. That space in the past was an attractive space, but it was a pass-by space, not one used very much by the community. The real sunken garden, which is where the old quarry is, was a very popular place for wedding pictures. Now you see them being taken up where the sculpture area is, but there are a lot of issues there. The city already, the Parks Department, has made some improvements. It used to be covered with burrs and potholes and things of that nature and the ground, little hazardous to walk around, but it's still far from ideal. I think another thing is that this is unique, almost in the country, to have a prime space like that where other communities are spending hundreds of thousands and millions of dollars to carve out similar spaces, everything from Chicago, which dedicated acres of land and the prime part of the city at billions of dollars all the way down to Little Rockport, which has created a beautiful space. And these comparable spaces really help generate economic development. I think already this is putting our community on the map. So the commitment to making this design be fulfilled successfully is pretty strong. And we would again return to Costa DC seeking funding. But from the private end, first let me tell you that we will will be spending in the next decade, 200,000, as we continue the national competition. In addition to that, the museum is committed to helping create a gateway that would be developed through the Parks Department and raising funding for that. And I want to emphasize we are not rich.

[0:45:49] Everything we do is a struggle. The museum works very hard to do that. And then also we will be bringing in the security element That's necessary. And we have a lot of expenses over and above the basic commitment because it's a very expensive undertaking. Bringing in the works of art requires a crane, heavy duty crane that requires providing stipends to the artist, to the juror. We bring in among the most famous people in the artwork, the jury of the show. And already I think this is helping put the community on the map. We do extensive marketing nationally. And I'm happy to say if you look at brochures and other things being produced through the Convention Visitor's Bureau and also the Chamber of Commerce, you'll see that it's always there, one way or another. Isn't that what you're saying to me how it is, is that this is the first step of many steps. One is the design and then you will go out through public funding and perhaps COSEDC look for additional funding. One of my big issues, number one, let me say, that I think that Richard Sommen's idea about putting that sculpture garden there has been a wonderful asset, and I am frequently surprised by the number of people who've parked on the street to go visit that sculpture. And they take their life in their hands. And they take their life in their hands, and so I want to make sure that we address the issues as it relates to keeping people off of Bryant Boulevard because it's dangerous, and sometimes on a Saturday There's 20 cars, they're walking City Park and it's. That's an important part of the design considerations. Also, if I may just mention, among the things it'll be looked at design-wise are environmental issues. There was a previously a water feature there for many years and it hasn't operated for a number of years. And if the budget allows, we'd like to see that not only restored, but become a part of the water recycling system in front of the Art Museum a number of years ago,

[0:47:50] upper Colorado River 30 working with the city and the museum and I co-chaired that project created the ponds that have the vortex separator that cleaned the water, goes into the river, recycles it, aerates it in a series of beautiful ponds, it's things like that that we want to look at and even the parking, we want it to have permeable surface so that it doesn't look like blacktop everywhere but in fact it allows moisture penetration. Okay Howard so tell me what your time frame is because the other thing that happens is these things drag on to the point we forgot that we ever approved it. So what's your timeline on this? We will hit the ground running because we've been thinking about this for quite a while and there will be an RFQ or RFP I get them mixed up but to send this to leading landscape designers who've done similar projects across the country and I think that's another important question why bring in designers from outside the community? Well we'd be looking at expertise from people who've done things similar to this, but also have a high level of understanding of conservation issues. And I think that we've already developed the basic document that we would issue, and it's going to be very broadly put out across the country so that we can look very carefully at the best design people there are. And then I'm hoping, and I'd have to defer to Carol on that, but I think if the funding is there, I'm hoping we can begin within three to six months at the very latest. I think it would be about a six to 12 month process. So we're down the road about a year or so. We continue with the national sculpture competition. We make improvements there, but I think this is a big picture thing that could be fabulous for our community, I think. Thank you. Do we have other comments or questions from city council members for Howard or for Carl? Yeah, I make one more point, Mary. You may. Not a penny goes to the museum, not a penny. In fact, we are digging very deep into our own resources to support this. All the assets are going to be owned by the city of San

[0:49:52] Ansela and the Parks Department. So this is not a project for the museum. It's for the community and for the city. I agree. Thank you very much. Do I have a motion to accept item F? I'll move. A second. All in favor? Aye. Passes 7-0. Thank you. Appreciate it. We will now move into the regular agenda, and we will have a presentation from the Convention of Visitors Bureau, and I think Diana Bays is here to present that. Thank you. Morning, and thank you, Mayor, Council, City Manager, and audience for being here and putting up with my presentation this morning. Hopefully it will be enlightening. That's my goal. As you know, the CBB is the Convention of Visitors Bureau also known as a destination marketing organization. So that is our role to market the destination to visitors so they will come and spend money and help the community. So our mission is to enhance the quality of life for the citizens of St. Angelo through tourism, marketing, and promotion. And how do we do that? We have a staff that is made up of myself. I'm the vice president. Suzanne Aguirre is our leisure and sales manager. That does not mean the little blue guys. That is a small acronym for social, military, educational, religious, and fraternal because we have found that that is a large component of our visitor market. That includes group tours, sports, weddings, all of that leisure component. Amy Roberts is our Association Government Sales Manager. She also focuses on the corporate market, so she spends quite a bit of time working with associations out of Austin. Linda Burdell is our visitor center coordinator and manages the volunteer staff at the visitor center.

[0:51:53] Victoria Nakamura is our intern and graphic designer. Unfortunately, we will be losing Victoria in May when she graduates and goes to get her masters in Denton. But I will share some of what Victoria has done for us, and she has been a huge asset for our organization. We have two part-time visitor center employees who work over our weekends, and then we have multiple visitor center volunteers. In trouble. Someone help her with the computer. There it is. Okay. I wanted to give you these numbers. These are from Dean Runyon. These are produced from the Office of the Governor Tourism Division. Division. These were the numbers from 2016 for San Angelo. So you can see the direct impact of the tourism industry and please note that the hotel tax dollars are paid by visitors. So that is 7% for the city of San Angelo and 6% for the state. So if you have a $100 room at a hotel, then that additional 13%, so you're paying $113, part of that goes to the city and the other part goes to the state, just so you're aware of that. The total direct travel spending for the City of St. Angelo in 2016, according to Dean Rundem, was $178 million. This is purchases by travelers during their trip, including lodging taxes, local and state taxes paid by the traveler at the point of sale. So that gives you an idea of what that means. The total direct earnings, $67 million. Those are earnings wage and salary disbursements, earned benefits and proprietor income of employees and business owners in our community. The total visitor tax receipts, 2.6 million, the total visitor state tax receipts, 10.1 million, and then the total direct employment of visitor attractions and businesses is 3,100 jobs.

[0:54:00] So that's quite a few jobs in our industry that are related to the tourism business. So what does that mean for the city of citizens of St. Angelo? If not for visitors spending in 2016, every household would pay an additional $379 in taxes. So the more visitors we have, the higher that number goes, and the more people are saving in our community. visitors are important to our industry. These are highlights of our past year. I started in this position in April along with Amy Roberts, Susanna basically held the reins for three months alone and so we appreciate what she has done but now we are fully staffed and so we're really excited about the accomplishments that we were able to make in 2017. First of all we launched our Our Discover St. Angelo.com Visitor Center, our website, and so that was launched in mid-year and we had 124,823 page views and I will tell you the rodeo increased that quite substantially over the past three weeks, but that is important that we bring that image forward for the visitor to enjoy. As far as the social media in 2017, our Facebook likes increased by 62%. We developed a Pinterest page and we're still developing that. We have our San Angel Convention Visitors Bureau page on LinkedIn. Our Instagram increased by 173% followers. We launched a YouTube channel, Discover San Angelo, that has an overarching video and also So niche videos that highlight the importance of our community and what we have to offer. And then our Twitter increased by 49%. And I've been at this for 20 years and I can tell you when I first started in our industry,

[0:56:00] we had a website, we did direct mail, we did phone calls and sales calls. And now we're tweeting and following and liking and YouTubing and viewing and watching and sharing and Snapchatting and pinning. And so when we are trying to market to our community, we have to put everything that we can do, but we can't do it all. So we've chosen these areas for social media to try to do the best and put our best foot forward. And as I said, we launched our Discover San Angel YouTube channel recently. We're using two different organizations, businesses in the city, to develop those by the stream media did our overarching video and then McLaughlin advertising is doing our they're producing our niche videos just to give you an idea of what that meant now our YouTube views have not been that large but we did organically put the Facebook or the video on Facebook and from October through December and we had over 70,000 views now that's up to about 85,000 that cost us nothing we did not paper advertising on Facebook for that. If we had, I think that would go significantly higher, and we probably will do that sometime this year. This is also a video that Amy and Susanna use in their presentations to meeting planners so that they can get a view of what we look like in St. Angelo. In 2017, we promoted St. Angelo in 31 print publications and on six tourism websites. We captured over 19,000 leads, and so what do we do with that? Our volunteers and Linda Verdel, our visitor center coordinator, send out information to all of those organizations, or all of those individuals who are asking for information. We also have majority of their email addresses, so we include them in a newsletter that we send out every month that tells and highlights what is happening in our community for the month. Additional highlights, we marketed San Angel at seven trade shows, including the American

[0:58:01] Bus Association, National Tour Association, the consumer market shows in both Houston and in Dallas, a couple of the group tour shows, the Albuquerque Balloon Fiesta, because we do have the balloon festival here. We provided services and or booking assistance to 82 definite conventions and meetings. So we did have meetings that came to our community, they may have been at our convention center here or they may have gone to hotels or other venues in our community that also include sports teams. And so what do we do when we provide services to them? We help them with negotiating rates with our hotels. We also provide step-on guides if they need those for their tours and we also give them and bags with information about our community, including a newly offered option of the San Angel local card that we can date while they're here and so people can spend while they're here and we're able to track that spending. We hosted a familiarization tour with the staff from the Office of the Governor Tourism Division and group tour operators from all over the country and the world. And so from that tour, we have already gotten interest from some folks out of Massachusetts and even some of the Canadian market is looking to come here. And so we will continue to boost that market and probably the best thing about it is we did have a 20-year employee of the governor's office who'd never been in St. Angelo and went back and told the staff what a great place it was. And so we hope to keep working with the governor's office on developing that. And then our volunteers greeted more than 10,000 guests at the visitor center. 25% of those were from out of our state. And so we still had great attendance even from out of state people, so we will continue to work on that. Hotel occupancy increased by more than 7% at the end of 2017, according to Smith Travel Reports.

[1:00:01] We conducted monthly good fellow city tours, and we continue to do that. Sometimes we do that bi-monthly to showcase our city to those who have just arrived from Goodfellow, and that's a good effort from us. We help three Texas-friendly hospitality training workshops, and we do these on a quarterly basis. We actually have two this week, the 21st and 22nd. We have 24 people from Goodfellow who are gonna be taking the hospitality training course. And we're working with Howard College on the possibility of offering that as a credited course to businesses who are interested and having their folks take that as an option. We launched our Discover St. Angelo ad campaign. This goes back to my intern. She designed this for us based on what our website looks like. As you notice, we have a lot of vibrant colors. When we were designing the website, when I talked to the developer, they said, what kind of color scheme do you want to use? I said, well, I'm looking out my office. My office overlooks the Concho River, probably one of the best offices in town, not going to lie. And I said, we have blue skies, we have green grass, we have this beautiful stone, and we have this great river. So the developer said, well, then we think there need to be vibrant colors. And I said, I don't disagree. So that is what we did. And so this mirrors what we have on our website. And we've gotten great response. I've been to a number of these trade shows where people have actually seen these ads and love the color scheme that goes with it. I would also add, and I didn't bring one to everyone, but these are our folders that we developed that showcase what we are and what we look like. And so we are giving these out to meeting planners. We're also giving these to travel writers, bloggers, press, anybody who comes in our community. And if you see the tagline, Enflip and joined us recently, and an I in Victoria did some brainstorming.

[1:02:02] We don't have time, have the money right now to develop a brand campaign. Would you read that? Because I think it's very clever, and I just love it. Would you read what that says? Yes, ma'am. It's Discover St. Angelo and Oasis in West Texas off the beaten path. Because we do recognize that we're not on the interstate. And for us, for quality of life, I can tell you, having lived in Buda and Commuted to Austin every day for four years and being stuck in traffic for a full month out of my life every year, because I did the math one time. That's a lot to offer. That's great for visitors. The folks who come for a group tour or a meeting can go from their meeting to the reception in 10 minutes. In Austin, San Antonio, Houston, Dallas, Fort Worth, El Paso, that's never going to happen. They will be sitting in a bus, sitting in a car for 30 minutes to an hour trying to get to where they need to go. So that's a quality of life for visitors and for businesses when they come into our community. So we will continue to utilize that. And then finally, I wanted to share what our goals are for this year. We had a strategic planning session with the Convention and Visitors Bureau. We brought in Mara Gaste, a San Angelo native who was also the Irving Convention and Visitors Bureau president and CEO. And then we had an additional strategic planning session with the Chamber of Commerce. So we wanted to make sure we mirrored their goals and our goals together. So what that brought us was goal number one to grow our hotel occupancy by 5%. The hotels met with us, and we talked about what that realistic number should and could be. When you say that, what is the number of conventions this year versus last year that have been booked? I think we have 26 on the books right now. So that is a bit of a challenge.

[1:04:03] I can tell you in talking with the convention center, we had no events on the books here. I think maybe there may be one or two. The meeting space is a bit of a challenge. I have been working on some information for our office that showcases or shows what kind of comparison we have with other cities as far as meeting space. And I don't know if you're aware, but Midland and Odessa are getting ready to open to huge convention centers. The Odessa convention center I think is 79,000 square feet and the Midland is 74,000 square feet. The Odessa facility will be attached to a marion. The Midland facility will be attached to a, or across the street from a double tree. And they have, we have 24,000 square feet of meeting space here. And so San Angelo, they're Midland, no Decon. I'm sorry? I said, but worse than Angelo and they're Midland. And that's correct. That's correct. But having larger facilities is a benefit for them. And the Odessa facility, I got to see the new CBB director in Austin. And they had two donors that donated $48 million to build that. So that's a pie in the sky kind of thing. But that is out there. And so we believe we have a far better product as far as what there is to see and do and offer. And so we will still continue to put our name out there, which leads to the goal number two, communicate the need for wayfinding and connectivity and some of the challenges that we had in both of our planning sessions, that was something that came up. We want to make the connectivity, the wayfinding signage for visitors and actually for the community easily accessible and better accessible. I understand from the RUDET study that was done years ago,

[1:06:04] that was part of that study. And so we are going to review that further and see what we need to do to help assist in those efforts to make that happen, because it's important that visitors and the citizens are able to go from point A to point B easily without challenges. And so that is part of our goal. Goal three is brand awareness telling the story of St. Angelo. I'm working with travel bloggers. They will be here probably either the end of April or May, and they are three of the most prominent bloggers in the state. And so they have millions of followers, and so we want to get them to tell our story, and not just us, because we know that when you have a total stranger tell your story, you're more apt to listen to them. That's why we watch TripAdvisor Reviews to see what kind of star rating we have. Goal number four, to expand the tourism base through a broader understanding and appreciation for the economic impact of the tourism industry. This is extremely important. I will tell you I put this goal on every strategic plan I ever have because people need to know the importance of visitors spending to a community and how it affects each of every household. And then finally, to encourage tourism product development and strategies to address future growth. As we find information from surveys from our visitors and from our citizens, we want to share those with the council to say these are things that people are saying they want and need in this community that benefits both the citizens and their quality of life and the visitor experience when they are here in the community. So that is my presentation. This is my contact information. If there are people here in the audience who would like to reach me, we are absolutely open to visit with you about what there is to see and do. One of the biggest comments I always hear from everybody that's not included in your presentation is the importance of the cowboy western experience here. And we know that the attendance to the rodeo is huge, it has a huge big impact, but when

[1:08:05] the rodeo goes, so goes the conversation of cowboy western Indian. That's what people want. A lot of people come to West Texas and still believe that we have cowboys and Indians. Yeah, exactly. And they want to see the cowboy hats and they want to see all of that. And I don't see any mention of that in the presentation. I will tell you, Mayor, that when we are looking at our niche marketing and that's what we are doing this year as far as our advertising is concerned, I've just negotiated with True West Magazine to market our Western, our Fort, that feel also through digital and print marketing, because I won't do just print now. I do ask for a component of digital and they are also offering me editorial as well. So we will capture that specific market that's looking to come here because that's how we want to address those needs. We are also looking at our nature-based tourism. It's a huge market for us. From the state part to the lake, we want to make sure in the country where we want to make sure people know what there is to see and do as far as nature is concerned. and then we're even focusing on our unique shopping experience through Shop Across Texas. So, we're focusing on all of that, but they are all different niche markets that we will be putting out this year. Do I have questions from Council or comments from Council? Yes, Harry. Thank you. And I know that your only full service hotel in San Angelo now has rebranded. How will that affect financial aspects of conventions and the number of conventions that we have coming? Yes, sir. We have the Clarion Hotel, and this will, I believe, go into effect March 1st. They are going to be rebranding to Red Lion Inn. The concern I have is it's not a known brand in the state of Texas. It is from, I believe, the northeast, and in the 90s that was a very predominant brand

[1:10:09] that was very well respected. So we have talked with Heidi, the general manager there, about them producing some type of video to showcase what their hotel is so that people can see exactly what it is and what it looks like. But they are in that rebranding process that should take place March 1st. The other thing that wasn't specifically brought up in, you're talking about niche marketing, but I wanna make sure that we get credit for all the great things that we do here and have here as assets, historic downtown, the lake, the fort, the museum, et cetera. We have a city full of major assets, and I feel strongly that we need to make sure we look at each of those assets and develop a game plan to make sure the rest of the world, the state of Texas, everybody else, knows about the great assets. And so the negative-ish marketing is the campaign. Yes, and that is part of our process. In fact, I spoke to one of my counterparts who has worked in the Fredericksburg market in their marketing communication. And the city or the state of Texas does what they do call media missions that are all over the world really, but we're gonna be focusing on the US, Canada, and Mexico. And so we want to work with them closely to be able to sell that market and share what our niche market looks like. And so we'll be developing press kits that showcase all of that. Thank you very much, Diane, any other comments before Diane goes. Thank you very much. We will now move into item B, discuss funding and consider awarding RFB-ES-02-18 the Bells Street Improvement Project to re-salbert in the amount of $19,800,532 for asphalt paving or 22,255,977 for concrete pavement budgeted in fiscal year 18 and authorizing the city manager

[1:12:12] to execute all related documents. Russell, you're on. All right, good morning, everybody. How are you all today? All right, today I'm going to be going over the project scope as well as the bid received, the operation and maintenance costs associated with the different pavement options. And then finally, our staff recommendation. Just to remind everybody, this project scope is going to include all three phases of Bell Street, which is going to extend from Rio Concio Drive to Old Ballinger Highway to approximately two miles in length. We will be reconstructing all that pavement. And part of this project, we looked at two different options of pavement, asphalt pavement, or concrete pavement, we'll also be looking at replacing the water and sewer mains underneath the street. We'll be removing the water main from out from underneath Bell Street to within the adjacent right of way. The sewer mains will actually stay within the street, largely in part because of, you know, just not having enough room to put accommodate both the water and through mains in the adjacent right of ways will be adjacent will be addressing the drainage improvements on on Bell Street there at East Angelo draw East Angelo draw is actually the number one project identified on our 2000 master drainage plan will be installing new sidewalks along Bell Street basically for two-thirds of Bell Street, from Rio Concho Drive to Loop 306. We'll also be installing new traffic signals on Rio Concho Drive at the intersections of Rio Concho and Harris. Those two intersections are very outdated as far as traffic signals and need to be replaced as part of this project.

[1:14:13] The bid that we received was from Reese Albert. That was the only bid that we received. Option A is for the asphalt pavement at the $19.8 million. Option B is with the concrete pavement at $22.3 million. Looking at those bids received, we did an analysis of operation and maintenance costs to kind of help better determine which option was the better option. The things that we looked at were the 50-year life cycle of those pavements, the initial installment costs, maintenance costs, for example, like seal coating, the lane striping and then millen overlay, millen overlay would only be associated with the asphalt pavement and not the concrete pavement, and then also the level of service during construction of those maintenance activities. It's really hard to put a dollar value on those actual levels of service during those interruptions, but it does create a hindrance on the traffic flow through that area. The O&M costs, so the cost for installing the asphalt pavement or for the life of it to maintain that, we're looking at about $6.3 million more on maintenance costs. that lifecycle. What we looked at were the the seal coating and the striping during those efforts and as well as the mill and overlay you know at about the 25 year mark because asphalt degrades much at a much faster rate than concrete largely in part due to sun exposure it also eyes and breaks up cracks and then those cracks lead to moisture penetration. And with that staff recommends moving forward with the concrete option at the 22 million 22.3 million dollar and we asked to begin the negotiations and execution of that contract with that I opened it up to any questions or comments.

[1:16:29] do I have questions from yes Billy Russell if I remember correctly the previous bid we had from Reese Albert and they were the only bidder as well it was maybe three million or so less than this one am I remembering correctly that was for only one portion of this project Billy I there were three that in that because the first bid went out for one of of the three initial right so the other two phases only amount to a cost of three million dollars no the original the original like Brenda said was the original bid that we put out was just just for phase one and i believe it came in at us about about six million dollars, six or seven million dollars. That is your question. Okay. But the total project, where does it? Yes. Am I totally as remembered? Yes. Yes, please. Mr. Witt, the three million does stick in your memory. That's correct. That, as I recall, the bids came in three million dollars higher than we expected. Is that correct, Russ? Is it correct on the original? And so that was the reason why they went back and added the two additional phases. in attempt to try to get some economy of scale and additional bidders in to drive the costs down. Thank you. So we didn't get any additional bidders. Do we have any idea why that is? No, I really don't have a good answer for that. We did have some interest. We had two pre-bid meetings prior to bid opening. We did have other contractors show up to those meetings. I did reach out to, personally, I reached out to other contractors just to you know you know make them aware of the project things of that nature but you know why why we didn't get more bids I

[1:18:31] can't answer that question it's a conglomerate one of the reasons because incredible work and effort it takes to work through the conglomerate that's there I can't answer that I'm sorry Lane did you have did you? Matter of fact I probably have a whole book on this. Citizens have been waiting so long on this project but there are a couple items that either you or Billy have an address so far so let me let me ask this question. There are if you look into background information there's mobilization charges on all three phases of this project, which really today is only one project. I guess my question is that there's an additional $660,000 on Phase 2 and Phase 3 for mobilization charges. You know, this is one project. They can leave the equipment out there. If they need to move the equipment, I think they need to move it on their own diamond, not the citizen's tax dollars. So I think we really need to have conversation with Reece Albert on this as, especially since we're talking about significant money that is over and above what we, what the original estimate was. The other question I ask is, can you bid this thing out and take the utilities out separately and bid that portion by itself? Because if you look at the background information, it appears like utilities portion of that, is quite a bit higher than maybe what the city's estimate would be for that particular part of it. Okay those are two very valid questions you know I would to start off with we've already been in discussions with Reese Albert you know asking them if there's some ways that we can save some dollars on this project

[1:20:33] we're looking at you know doing some value engineering throughout the project but until the project actually gets started, you know, we can't really make those changes at this point, but we do, we've already identified some potential areas where we can save some money on the utilities more specifically. You know, one thing on the plans was, you know, just the depth that was shown, you know, we can look at making some adjustments there, we can make some adjustments on the pavement construction as well. And so we're working through them with that on that and you know I don't have those exact numbers at this point just because you know we technically don't have a contract at this point Here if I could add we can't enter those Conversations in earnest until we have awarded the bid so That being said does that mean that if today the city council approves a 22 million dollar project that you or telling us that you will go back and renegotiate multiple items like the utilities, value engineering where it's feasible and whether it's six feet or seven feet down savings way not going so deep. The question mark is if we approve the 22 million does that mean that you're going to come back to us and say we've worked with Reese Albert and we've all resolved that it's not a 22 million dollar project, it's a 18 million dollar project and you come back to us, or when we sign off, we sign off and we don't know the update in terms of what you've been able to do to save the citizens money. Sure, I'd be happy to come, you know, once we get the project going, come back and give a status update. I mean, this is going to be a very long project. I mean, we're looking at about a three-year timeframe to get this project completed, so I'd be happy to come back, you know, once a quarter, twice a year, you know, things of that nature,

[1:22:33] once this project gets going, just to update on those different changes, you know, a lot of things that we don't have imagined. Or it gets going. That's the question. Before it gets going. Because you just said that you can't enter into negotiations until we have approved a contract. So I'm interested in the negotiation, once approved the contract, what the savings are going to be. We understand it before, as they say, the nails in the ground. Right, in the coffin, yeah. That is, that's the question I have, and I don't know whether it's a question for Russell or for purchasing. Can we award, and then after the value engineering, come back and report to council before issuing a notice to proceed? Yeah, that's a very valid point, because, too, there's some of the other issues that we don't know about, or some of the utility conflicts that we have, I mean, we've done our best homework to get that done, but until you actually start digging everything up and finding everything, there's a lot of unknowns that we don't have at this point. So to be able to really pinpoint what that dollar amount is gonna be or that savings is gonna be, we could potentially look at. Number one, the citizens have been very vocal about this is a project that we have to get done. There's no question about the importance of this project. That number one, number two, is we are responsible for making sure that the contracts we sign are the best value for the citizens that we possibly can have. So Mike and we also know the third thing, no other contractors bidding on this project. So we have a contractor who is bidding, that's it, but I want to know that we got the best value for the citizens, and I don't want to sign off on $22.2 million without knowing what potential savings are and what we're really signing off on, because I don't want it to get lost in the cloud.

[1:24:34] Candice, like purchasing manager, we cannot issue a change order until after the work has began. So we would have to approve the bid, start the contract, and start the work before we could issue the change order. So we would have to then, you know, work with the value engineering and everything after that. Mary, if I may. One thing that you're asking for is just clarification as a project starts as far as what are the items that we're looking at to bring that value that you're talking about. We can definitely update you on that. And Candice, and we definitely understand what you're saying. Once the work does start, we have to do that by change orders and so forth. We understand that, but we can update the City Council members to let you know, okay, about it, approve this amount, but this is what we look at. This, this, this and this, this will be going before y'all in the form of a changeover in the future. But we're looking at these savings at this point, and we can update you on what that is. Because what I look at is the following number one is that the numbers are significantly higher than what we anticipated that they would be. So my question is, how are we so off on the numbers? How is it we think it's supposed to be A, and the only contractor bidding tells us it's Y, And there's a huge million dollars difference between what we believe and what a contractor, the only contractor, has said we can do this project for this amount. That's our number. Approximately 50 percent higher. And so those are concerned, we need Bell Street redone unquestionably, it's a high priority, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't look for the most possible economic way to get the best product for the best dollar we can do for citizens. And that's my challenge. I agree. So what we based our estimate on our statewide averages for these types of construction projects, so those were the variables that we looked at

[1:26:35] and addressed where we came up with. Does state have the same conglomerate problem we have? Yes, rock is rock. It's no harder here than it is in other parts of the state. To answer Harry's other question about potentially rebidding this project and different phases bidding out the utilities versus doing, you know, it has one project doing utilities and pavement altogether having one general contractor on that project. There are some pros and cons to doing that. of the pros are, you know, you don't necessarily, you know, if you have a general contractor that's hiring a sub to do the utilities, you know, sometimes there's markups on those costs, you know, typically ranges from about 10 to 15 percent markup is what we look at. You know, the cons, some of the cons to that are timing issues and, you know, the liabilities that the city takes on basically playing the general contractor at that point. We can definitely have all the utilities constructed and rehabilitated before the pavement contractor comes in. But the problem that you run into there is your street is tore up for that much longer period of time. And, you know, it's, you know, and then, too, if you try to sequence it, then you could potentially, you know, if something happens to the utility contractor to where he gets held up, well, then all of a sudden you've got, you know, different contractors pointing fingers and saying that they're holding me up and I'm going to start charging up with everything. That happens with every project. All I want to do is to make sure that we don't sign off on this as a council and then wake up and say, you know, there was about $2 million in there we shouldn't have spent. I want to make sure we are diligent about this project

[1:28:37] and that we don't, just because we approve the contract, that we don't look away and forget to check, recheck and double check for every possible savings because as Harry said, it's about 50% more than we anticipated, not 10%, not 5%, 50%, and that's a huge number. Agree? I think it ought to give the council pause for concern. We have other projects that we have yet to work on. We've got one bidder, so it's of concern to me as much for our future projects that are part of this whole thing, while it's a huge concern here. I think we need to somehow sharpen our pencils with respect to where we're, I don't know the answer, but why can't we get bidders? That, to me, is an oddity that we can't get more bidders. Well, I think, for me, the biggest issue is the realism. We say x, and somebody says, the only bidders says it's going to be y. And I'm concerned about the breadth, the distance, between projection and bid. Mayor? Yes, sir. If I could. Russell was concerned about the numbers also. And we talked some, and we kind of broke the project down to see where the differences were. If you think about the street work as one element, the step up from asphalt to roller compacted concrete as another element and the utility work as another element, the base street work came in at 7.3 million. Our outside engineers estimated that at 7.2 million. That is essentially on the nose. There is a step up to move to concrete. we didn't do a lot of analysis on that. But with that street work coming in on the nose, that what that does is puts all the overage

[1:30:37] on the utility part. The utilities essentially came in in excess of double what the outside engineers estimated that to be. That's where the hang up is, that the outside engineers nailed the street part. It's the utility side where that variation is that you were just describing. In addition to going from asphalt to concrete, but what you're saying is that increase from asphalt to concrete will result in an over 50 year period of three point something million dollars savings. So the step up, or six million, sorry. So what you're saying is the step up in concrete is worth the value over a 50 year period to pay for now. right and also handles the heavier truck traffic that we have on Bell Street, you know, it's a much more industrial type area, you know, we have the the trash or the landfill out on out north bell, you know, and it'll just, it'll, the concrete will much weather the storm much better than. Yes, Tom. Tom the Concrete is that similar to what you have on the Colosseum right by the Colosseum Craig is very the exact same thing That we have over on the Colosseum it as well as Lakeview Heroes Drive And it's been a very good product, you know We've gone out to other cities and looked at you know the similar products there and mittlin more specifically They have a very you know similar street to Bell Street that was constructed in the same manner It's handling those traffic and your maintenance costs and that have been significantly less We have seen it be very good. We've seen a few little spots, but over a period of time, the amount of maintenance and time you spent there has been minimal. Is that correct? Is that correct? That's correct. I would certainly concur and echo the fact that pursuing the concrete is well worth it. But going down here and looking at spending 22, and we can pretty much iron it down to your projections, we're spot on, except for the utilities part of it.

[1:32:38] That's correct. What's the incentive for our consulting engineer or our engineer? to help us to help us make sure we're not spending more than we should spend. And I guess really on the, let's say just on the utility side, since it's a double what was projected, what's the incentive on them to help us warp through that? Daniel, did you have a comment that you wanted to add? I just wanted to add, because Tommy talked about sharpening our pencils. We do know that we have future projects, and we'll get to that just a little bit. All I wanted to say is as far as sharpening our pencils, that's definitely something we do and you see Shane standing there right now, ready to talk to that, but on our end, we understand that we have all these future projects that we need to get accomplished no matter what. Bell Street needs to happen. That is the one item, top item that our citizens tell us we need to get it done. We also know, as Amer said, we need to make sure that there's a value associated with this, make sure that we can reduce this cost, and that's something we'll commit to, but we're also looking at future projects to ensure that we can also sharpen our pencil and those projects that we projected bring the cost down as well to make sure that we can cover these costs associated with this as well and then as far as what you're asking as far as the value added you want to go to address that right I mean it you know it the incentive that they have with that is to help us come up with the best value for our being for our book to also help us you know project for future projects not just the existing projects and to just help us move further on down the road is there for is there financial no there's no financial incentive for them to be more accurate they don't gain or lose depending on the size of the contract or well no but I mean if we're you know looking at future projects may may hinder that so you know we won't have those funds available to do those future projects. I just want to make sure someone's looking at it every day. Great. I take it off the radar and I will add this to our weekly updates as

[1:34:43] well so I can keep you updated on that. With that yes ma'am add something about the context of the contracting. Once we enter a contract amount with these folks who are going to be building this street and we can only increase that contract value by 25% under the state statutes. So this project from what I understand And because of the rock, it's very unclear how much rock there is, and that is going to be very expensive. So even though it's disappointing, this came in high. I mean, I think there's some context in which it's understandable that they gave us their worst case scenario, because that 25% rule could really make this a very unprofitable job for them if it falls the wrong way. Thank you for that. Do I have, yes, Lane? I'll agree. I'm going to go with the concrete also, because it's kind of like whenever I go buy a tool, I'm gonna go get that high in brain name tool that's gonna get me through it. That's gonna last us a long time. But I'm still, I don't know if the question was answered of Harry's about the mobilization since we're doing this all at once. The first south phase was $501,000, the second north phase was 541, for 51 and 201 for the central phase. So if we're doing this all at once, which one of those can we knock off? Or if that's going back to Brenda's question of, if we're okaying this $22 million now, and we negotiate that after we vote, yay or nay in a few minutes. Well, I would think, and I'm not an engineer, just a woman with some questions, But the question is the fine and comment is is that when you talk about mobilization, it's not like we're going to close all of Bell Street done at once and do all of one project from beginning to end. So mobilization, because we can't shut Bell Street totally down. So you're going to have mobilization issues as it relates to being able to do one piece, even though it's one contract, not three contracts right now, one project, one aspect of it won't be done

[1:36:48] from beginning to end at the same time, correct? correct I mean we'll be we'll be working with them on the schedule and the same thing as we work on so not in sections so it's they're still on site that will be section still right they're still they got to move to another project outside of the Bell Street project it's their cost it's not the citizen's cost that's correct and that's a point I'm trying to make that's six hundred and sixty plus thousand dollars that we could be saving off of this 22.3 million that we're talking about right so we need to look at how how those that that works into that so I suspect that if we make this decision to start today with the 22.3 million dollar for concrete get this started and I think everybody up here believes that we need to get going on this. We really need to find a way that we can set that up with Reese Albert and with whoever the subcontractor is, because I can tell you this much, that subcontractor has been up there for the last 18 months replacing gas lines and they know how deep that rock is and what they have to go through. And it's a different contractor. It's a completely different contractor. Well, whichever contractor, but they know that. They know how deep that rock is. that rock is and what they've got to go through. So some some contractors know it anyway. Right. So to speak to the mobilization costs typically it's a percentage of construction and you know for all you know I can't speak for Reese Albert but you know if I was a contractor I would take my mobilization costs and spread it out over the three phases and that's what I'm assuming happened on this project. With that said are there any other questions and and if not do I have a motion move to approve this for the twenty two point two five five nine seven six zero second agree do I have public comment morning I represent a I'm sorry my

[1:39:03] name is Lenny James and I've had the honor the last year to work with the council and a couple members on a couple of different projects from relocating our homeless problem and whatnot. And I represent a company that is from Las Vegas and Nevada. They are the second largest contractor in the United States. And they have developed a patent and have the technology. They recycle all of their material that comes out of the ground. All of the asphalt can be taken out, recycled. It's a huge savings. I spoke with a good friend of mine and shot him some of these numbers and he feels that it's way over budget, that this is something that is is not being looked at correctly whatsoever. I'm just asking that maybe the city council can postpone for 30 days. And also I have a, the other question is that he wanted to convey to you is is there a, you know, is there any type of limitations whatsoever on having an out-of-state contractor come in opposed to a Texas-based, because they've run into that problem in different states that they've done work in. Teresa, would you speak to that? There is no limitation on out-of-state. We just typically do not have out-of-state contractors bid on our jobs primarily, I would expect, because of the mobilization cost that we've involved. This firm is, the size of this firm, they do work all over the United States. And this isn't something that's new for them. They said that they would really be interested to take a look at the bid proposal

[1:41:05] And did they reply to the RFQ when it went out on this project? I know that this was something that has come along later on. This is just something that I brought to their attention, and that has a public citizen. I believe that maybe we need to spend just another month and maybe get some outside experts that have done this before. And just talk with them a little bit. to be sure because this is a large chunk of money and Bell Street does need to be done but there's a lot of other roads need to be done. I've been working with Michael Looney at the Chamber and this company is actually somewhat interested in setting up a division here because there's a lot of roads that need to be And if we have a company locally, that's going to save us a lot of money, $600,000 on one job movement. Why not just have the equipment here forever? That's just all I wanted to say. Thank you very much. Further public comment? I'm counsel. My name is Steve Hampton. I think I forgot to mention that last time that I apologize. I, it does my heart good to hear the comments that have been, and the questions that have been fielded today. I look at Reese Albert as maybe having left the reservation, and we need to bring it back in line with community expectations. They are, they've been here a long time, and they've gotten a lot of business from us. And we have parks and stuff that we need help with, maybe some kind of tax consideration.

[1:43:09] We can be worked out there in helping them with their tax problems. Excuse me, is that to the conversation at hand? Yes, that is. Albert is handling the construction for the streets I believe and the air not helping us move forward with our goal as far as reworking of the streets all over the town and so we do need to figure out a way to get around if you sign a contract before you you you have all the details nailed down you lose your leverage, it seems to me that's traditional thinking. I'd love to hear legal's opinion on that, but I do feel that Reese Albert may have gone rogue on us, but I would like to move forward. I would like to move forward. The concrete costs more, if you have to work on it, it's going to cost more, but it gives us longer life so I just want to remind the public that we did put an RFQ out for this project and there was only one contractor who applied only one and only one so and this was done twice to RFQ's I know only one person applied and and so that's what we're dealing with today many many people they do have an opportunity to bid for this project Tracy did you have a comment to his question well I think my only comment is to agree with what Candace said that under the laws that we have to follow regarding these bids is that we have to execute a contract before we can do a change order to it. So we do need that negotiation process on every contract we do. We're always looking at ways to save money, but it has to occur after we award the contract. We have a representative of Reese Albert in the building that can come and clarify these issues for us. Thank you. Not sure what issues you want clarified. There was an RFQ that went out and

[1:45:13] only one person applied to that RFQ. So, um, well, why the why they went up? We just discussed that during the council, um, challenges and questions, um, as we talked about the issue. So I believe that those issues were discussed already. Further public comment with no further public comment we will take a vote on item B which is to approve the 22 million 255 977 for concrete pavement on the Bell Street project. All in favor of approving this say aye. Any opposed passes 7-0. Next item up is item C consider approving a task order under RFQ Q-E-S-O-4-1-5 to M-Protech Hibbs and Todd incorporated in the amount of $1,120,000 for design of College Hills from Loop 306 to Avenue N-C-I-P Project, and authorizing the City Manager to execute all related documents, Russell, you're on, or Lance, you're on. Good morning, Lance Silver Street representing engineering service of today, and I want to talk to you guys about the College Shields Design Project. This morning, we're just going to cover a couple of things for you guys, one scope, the design items, and then also to address any questions that you guys might have. The College Shields project that we're discussing this morning is the one that's inside of the loop. It's basically going to go from 3.06 up to Avenue N. And so that's the length and the scope of where this project is. This project is actually going to be fairly robust in terms of the items that are involved

[1:47:14] in it. As you guys know, it's not just going to be the infrastructure we're dealing with and the roadway we're dealing with, but also, too, we have quite a bit of stormwater implements that are a part of this one. This particular project is going to be another major project. It's set to be in year five as far as the funding stream goes, and as you guys recall, we kind of have this set up to where every bond that comes out is going to be a larger project and then other smaller ones and college hills is actually slated to be that larger project in those year five bond funds. It is going to be a full depth reconstruction so we are actually going into the sub base, into the sub grade. We are looking at moving out curbs, reconstructing down behind the curbs in the right away. The also too we're looking at replacements of some underground water utilities in those areas and sewer infrastructure. The other thing that we're looking at is of course the storm water structures. We are going to be having the in-protect kids on Todd. If awarded, they're going to be looking at possibly taking surface drainage under college hills. If that is a possibility based upon other utility conflicts. We also have two red arroya crossings that are going on there. As you guys know, when during larger events the red arroya actually flows over college hills, they're going to be going through the process of looking at can we elevate college hills? What kind of modeling? of other flood impacts are going to be based upon those things and so there is a considerable amount of design features that are going to be in this that have not necessarily been on any of the other projects that we have looked at in the past so far. The other thing that we're looking at is how we can tie in the pedestrian and the bicycle implements that are there in the Red Arroya trails and some of those other areas, putting sidewalks in, putting bike lanes in, shared lanes, trying to help develop that infrastructure of what's already there in that area. And so all in all, the proposed amount of the 1.12 million, that is the maximum of what is going

[1:49:15] to be a part of that process. Now, that is very subject to go down, depending on what direction we go. For instance, if we decide we're going to raise up college hills, and it's going to have to be some bridge or something that's much larger, then that is already included in that cost. If we decide that we can't do subsurface drainage, then that price is subject to change. The front end of this though is actually gonna be at a 30%, they're gonna have a detailed cost analysis for us to be able to look at all of these items line by line. So what is gonna be the cost if we have to go subsurface? What is gonna be the cost if we can deal with it all on the roadway? What is gonna be the cost if we widen out the crossings at the Red Arroyo or raise those different limits? And so this one is going to have a lot of initial feasibility and design for us as a city to decide what kind of project we want, what kind of funding we have to be able to go forward with, and what that project is going to look like, what the benefit is going to be for us. And so we've working with Emperor Heptep Higgs and Todd primarily because they've been very responsive on any of the other engineering that they've done in the past. they have been one that they've just instantaneously gotten back to us via email, any questions we've had, any kind of public inquiries, any kind of public meetings, they have been right on the spot of being able to provide all of those types of things, all of those services, they have an ask for additional funds on those types of things, they've just, they've been very, very responsive, they've been under budget, they've been very, met all the timelines, and so not not to mention the fact that EHT is a statewide company that has multiple offices, so all of these different avenues that we have, both on the utility side as well as the storm water, the river water modeling, all of these different facets, they have people in-house that are able to be a part of this project to help out with that. And so that's what we're asking you guys today to recommend is approving us to move ahead

[1:51:19] with that contract. And at this point, do you guys have any questions? I think Lane, you had one. Do. Daniel and I discussed this yesterday in our meeting about doing a lot of in-house engineering. Are we still looking at that, where we can save on cost? And also, maybe if we're going to hire an outside firm to do so, just do the base modeling and try to get our engineering firms here in town locally to save on travel costs. We have not looked specifically at breaking different components of this project up into different firms, sometimes that's a little difficult to have a one firm do a preliminary cost analysis, a preliminary engineering design, and then have another firm come back and start the entire process over to look at it with a fresh set of eyes. To me that would almost be a wasted cost because you would have one, you're paying one firm to do it and if they don't continue that design, someone else has to start over and redo a lot of that stuff. The one thing that we are going to be able to provide to EHT is the LIDAR data that we have that's going to help out with all the modeling. And so they're not going to have to come back through and re-survey a lot of those river crossings that stuff is going to be able to be available to them. We are also looking at in-house, some in-house surveying to be able to provide that as well. And of course the engineering services is going to be reviewing those things, working with them in the office. And so there will be a lot of a back-and-forth with this particular process. One thing that we do not have right now is the staffing to be able to handle this large of a project in-house with all the other tasks and all the other assignments that we currently have going on. Besides being a larger statewide firm compared to our local firms, are they comparable in qualifications? I don't know exactly all the qualifications that every firm that's local because we do You have several. I know that we chose Improtech, Hibbs, and Todd,

[1:53:19] largely because of the way their track record has been with some of the other projects. They have done very, very well. We've been very, very happy with the product we've gotten with them and with the responsiveness that we have received with them. And when we reached out to them for this particular project to submit a proposal, every one of the design implements or the design items that were in there, They had staff that they could identify and say, we have staff that can handle this type of design. We have done this kind of design in other areas and in other locations here in Texas. And so it's just a matter of tapping that resource that's already there and ready to go. This wasn't really based on Lois Bitter. No, no. On the IDIQ, it is a task item where we can actually go to a firm and say what has the qualifications based upon what was submitted in the original. And if those qualifications are there, we can go to them directly and say, what is the price going to be for this? So it's really qualification driven within anything. And you had some comments? Yes, I know Lane just mentioned as far as doing the in-house, and Lance mentioned that we just don't have the staff and at this point do it in-house. I know from day one, when the mayor came on board, she was asking about that. And as far as being able to bring in the staffing necessary to do some of this in-house. And that's something we'll discuss in our March workshop. and we'll have to carefully balance it out to determine the true cost associated with that, but that's definitely an option. I know your time that a project like this comes up, the question is asked why so much on the design work, and that's something that if we can keep the staffing and actually end up hiring the staffing necessary, we can address that. But again, that'll be something that will address very thoroughly in our workshop in March. Yes, Billy. I appreciate Daniel making that comment because that was one of the questions I had on the, when I looked at the bid sheet, and it had the basic engineering and the additional engineering,

[1:55:19] I wondered if that was some of the work that could be done in-house. And I heard you say that, you know, we just don't have, both of you say, we don't have the staffing levels at this point. So my question is, when we're looking at the different engineering projects that we need to do as a city, is that a factor we look at? whether or not we can do some of that work in-house. Absolutely. In fact, there's a couple of projects that the engineering department has actually taken on. Redoing Jackson Street, Johnson Street, as well as Sunset. We are actually looking at doing in-house. And one thing that we are challenged with on a regular basis is not only do we try to do the design on those projects, but we also are, as an engineer and staff, managing the ones that are currently active and going on in construction. And so it's a teeter-totter idea, whereas if all of a sudden your construction project has a lot of needs, the design project that you're supposed to be working on may have to take it back seat. I can tell you that Andy Vasilio, for instance, in sulfur draw, he has been so caught up in trying to get sulfur draw going that he has not had the opportunity to really work on one of the design projects just because of the demand that we had over the last couple of months with everything on sulfur draw. And so as you guys well know, It's difficult to keep focused on one thing when you have constant poles on another. But as the engineering department, that's one thing that we deal with, that's a part of our job assignment, is we have construction projects, we have design projects, and we are continually juggling all those things. And so we do look at the size of the project, we look at the scope of the project, and then we look at our current workload that we have to see if it's something that can be done in-house, or whether it's something that we do need to contract out. Okay, I was just going to say I certainly understood your logic when you were sharing about the firm that was selected to do this job that to separate out the pieces may not be cost effective

[1:57:22] because one portion is over here by one firm and then if you go to another firm they may have to redo some of that. But to the mayor's point, and I'll quote her all the time, you know, shop local, spend local, stay local. I just, you know, just want to say that the experience you've had with the firm that was designated, it's not a local firm, but you have worked with them before and they have done a good job for us. Yes, they actually have done a very good job on the project that was prior that we've worked with them for? Yes. My question is, when do we decide to do an RFQ and ask for various proposals versus making a decision to establish the needs in once of the project and then go into a firm and asking them if they can fulfill it? Because when it says RFQ, in my mind, that means that we sent out an RFQ that said how many of you out there would like to apply for this specific project and you're telling me we didn't do that. What we did was we said these are the specifics that we want in this project. Hi. Hello. How are you? Can you do it? Can I address that question? Okay. This is a different. We're going to do a lot of purchasing education today. This is a different kind of purchasing process when you're dealing with professional services is a whole different code, even it's under the government code, and it's called the Professional Services Procurement Act, and what it requires when we're hiring engineers is that we do an RFQ request for qualifications process, and we cannot make a determination based on bid. So what this process is, is one that's been in San Angelou for a while, and it's called the IDIQ process, and so what we've done is they issued an RFQ back in 2015 that we were going to use to pre-qualify firms for a whole variety of projects for our engineering department. And each of those firms did a response to us telling us which of the kinds of services

[1:59:27] they could do. The other component of that RFQ was the understanding that you weren't going to be assigned a job just then you were going to be put on a list. And then as jobs came forward we were going to look at that list of engineers, the qualifications they gave us, and pick the one that was most qualified for that specific job. The other thing that the act requires is that we negotiate with them first. We can then talk about price. And if we can't come to some conclusion, we can go to the next qualified firm on the list. So all of these firms, this was actually one of the first meetings I was the city attorney. And I remember it very vividly, that they wanted to, the engineering department actually wanted to limit it to the top five firms based on qualifications. I believe Hibbs and Todd was in the top five. It was second or third maybe, something like that. And so there was concern expressed by some of the local firms that they weren't not in the top five at that time. And so council made a decision to just go ahead and accept all of the firms, so that we could give jobs to even local firms under this particular process. And it's my understanding that we have awarded some local firms jobs under the side of IQ, correct? So that's the general overview via the process. We can't consider price when we're selecting them. And the actual RFQ process took place back in 2015. Teresa, is that something that we really need to revisit? I mean, that's three plus years ago, three years ago. I mean, so that we get a better understanding that we're getting the best firm at the best price because right now we're dealing with a lot of streets, a lot of drainage issues that we're gonna have coming up over the next several years and most of the seven people that sit in here are gonna have to vote on that. You know, this has been a topic of a discussion in my office for a while that what has happened as far as funding is concerned is that Council allocated a certain amount of funding to this RFQ and we just bend up to that amount and then that RFQ is done unless we get more funding, which I believe has happened on this one. So what we're going to look at it is limiting these kind of processes, this IDIQ process to

[2:01:30] smaller value contracts in the future, however this one is not limited in that way. Are you saying to us based off of that comment that once the work begins on this that in fact the dollar amount could go up because they only get to 80% of the work that's done and that spent the 1 million 1 2 0 so we're saying that the maximum amount is the 1 1 2 0. There's no more is there less? There's two different numbers here. There's the overall value and you guys stop me if I'm not correct on this. The overall value that was awarded to the contract itself. For instance, on this RFQ, was it $6 million that was awarded? And then we take that $6 million as like the pool. Each of the task orders are of a certain value. So this task order under the RFQ is the 1.12. That number won't change. And you can approve it as a not to exceed number if you wish to do that so that it's more secure that it won't go up above that. But when we say not to exceed, we would say not to exceed that dollar amount, but all the projects listed as projects under that contract must be completed under that 1 million 1 2 0 so that we don't get to not to exceed but only 80 percent or 90 percent of the the needs of that contract are completed. Certainly work on that language. Right I mean this this 1.12 million is just for the College Hills project from the scope that Lance discussed. I know it is I just don't want it to go over 1 million 1 2 0 and I want to make sure that that 1 million 1 2 0 without exception completes the engineering analysis and project scope that we're asking for here. What I don't want to know is 1 million 1 2 0 didn't buy me what we said it had to buy us. Great. If you place a knot to exceed on there then it will come back to you if they do have to go over that for any reason. Bill you have a question. Teresa does that include the 25% that you mentioned earlier that when we approve something

[2:03:34] We are proving it possibly 25% over what the stated amount is. If you do not take seat amount we have to come back to you if that task order value goes over that 1.12. Thank you. Do I have further questions or comments from Council? Then do I have a motion? A motion to approve this based on not to exceed the 1.12. Is there any public comment mayor council Russell Gulley with SKG engineering? We're a local engineering firm I'm not here to take anything away from hips and Todd. They're a good engineering firm. They do do good work There's some pieces of this project that we would like the opportunity to to do the work on You know you ask about pulling different parts out of the task and in one engineering firm starting something or another one picking it up, that's not what we're asking about. We would like consideration to do surveying geotechnical construction material testing and some right-of-way surveying work, so that's not design work. The design work would remain fluid through hips and tub. This is that part of your contract for the additional services that would need to be done to help the engineering be done so so we like your consideration or direction or possibility to to consider considering SKG to to assist the city in those aspects

[2:05:34] of the project. Does that mean that we to read some this is kind of a legal thing probably but awarding this project to Hibbsen and Todd, do we ask or suggest to them that we use as much possible local firms to help them in the execution of this 1 million 1 2 0 because again I would think there would be cost savings to utilize local. There's no reason with that that has more an engineering question as to whether or not that would be beneficial as far as the project's concerned. I think that there is always the possibility for some cost savings in any of these. I think where we would have to really weigh this out is if Mr. Gully wanted to sell his services as a subcontract to EHT directly, then that would actually be a subcontract between EHT as the prime and a sub. The city wouldn't be involved in that and to me that would be the best approach because then the city is not trying to be in the middle between managing two different projects and then trying to be the go between. What I would see is that if we went in a direction of doing two separate contracts, one for Mr. Gully has one task, one to EHT is the other task, then city staff is going to be put in the middle of, okay, EHT needs this here, then we're going to have to contact Mr. Gully and say based upon this contract, we need you here. And then, of course, if EHT has additional items that they need that go beyond the scope of what's been tasked to Mr. Gully, then the city would then have to incur those costs and change his contract. I think that's a lot of steps in the process that would complicate things as opposed to Mr. Gully selling his services to EHT, saying that he can do it at a better value to them and then that being something that gets passed on to the city. Further public comment with no further comment. We will take a vote all in favor of approving the 1 million 1 2 0

[2:07:46] Not to exceed the 1 1 2 0 Say aye aye any opposed passes 7 0 there any Was there a nay there was a nay there's one nay. Sorry six one All right, with that, I think it's probably time for a short, short, short break, so five minutes and we're back. We've got people in the audience waiting, so we need to go fast. Consider resolutions of general support for construction of affordable housing projects as part of the 2018 annual low income housing tax credit program four, and I think for one Glen Park, two meadow falls I understand has been pulled, three about Coney Flats has been pulled, number four the trails, number five cherry trails, and number six two-week plazas. So Bob, you're on. Thank you. Mayor, Council. The Affordable Housing Tax Credit Program is managed out of Austin through the Texas Department of Housing and Community Affairs. It is really the most effective partnership between local government and private sector. get tax breaks and the city gets affordable housing with very little investment on our part with local taxes. We are in Region 12, we are in Region 12 and we compete with Milidin and Odessa and normally only one project well-win and I say normally because there's always exceptions. The state sets out program rules through what they called a QAP with points that are awarded to specific items such as the quality of affordable of nearby schools, whether the city has a neighborhood revitalization plan, and whether the city supports the project. We're looking in that the developers that have submitted proposals this year are all very reputable companies with lots of experience and construction. Each project

[2:09:50] features green building techniques and other amenities. I will now provide a quick overview of each project. We do have representatives from each developer, and they're here to answer all your questions and concerns. And like you said, there were two. There were pulled. One was about killing the flats, and the other one was metal falls. So we'll start with Glenn Park Apartments. Glenn Park is a developer's VCC, VCC development. It's going to be located at 4,001 South Chabbard. It is 60 units, family. And you can see the breakdown of two and three bedrooms. And you can see the proximity to Goodfellow Air Force Base. It's pretty close right down the street, in fact. And it is a target demographic. We really haven't targeted specifically through this program. I think there's, there you go. And this is what they'll look like. You can see they're very attractive. These developers put good products on the ground. We have another one, cherry trails, so that's by four corners developed and incorporated. It's scheduled to go over there at the Appaloosa Trails behind the Boulevard Apartments, south towards the Sams area. 60 units for elderly, 31 bedroom, 32 bedroom, and this will be single-story duplexus, and they'll look like this. You can see that these two are also pretty attractive. And we also have a two-week plaza. Originally, this project was scheduled for two buildings. We are now looking only one. That's the old San Angel National Bank Building. I think it's the Bature Insurance Company is there. We're looking at 30 units versus 60. And also, please note that the developer is seeking what they call historical tax credit funds, I'm sorry, preservation funds. And this, well, if they get awarded, They will allow us to fund actually two potentially

[2:11:53] fund two other projects or one other projects. So there'll be two versus just one. So let's keep that in mind as well. And it is adaptive reuse. We'll have commercial tenants on the lower floor, and then we'll have rental tenants on the upper floor. Again, just one building. And lastly, we have the trails, the developers, generation housing development. that's going to be located at the 2600 block of AeroStreet, 72 units for family and which you can see the breakdown of one, two, and three bedrooms. We did, and here's an idea of what they're going to look like, and again, very attractive, very high quality product that all these developers construct. We had a Tom Holland meeting earlier this month, and we did have some comments. I'll take out the middle falls or about that, but the two-week, we do have some folks speak against the two-week plaza because they cited inconsistency with downtown revitalization plans. We also have one person speak about the trails due to potential increase in crime, and then we had no opposition to Cherry Trails or Glen Park. And what we're doing is we're doing staff is requesting support through a resolution of support for all of the projects that are in competition. Of course, you can scratch that one out. So we're asking for, again, a approval for these four. And again, we have representatives to speak to your issues. Do I think council would like to have each of the individual projects be presented? And then we will, I will ask council, if you then want to vote yay or nay on each individual project after the presentation or do you want to wait until the entire presentation is made and then take a vote? I'd like to make a comment before they make a presentation, general comment, they may.

[2:13:53] Affordable housing should be available to all citizens, no matter what part of the community. We've got teachers, nurses, firefighters, police officers, bank tellers and students that need this type of housing. And I want to remind people, this is not Section 8, government housing. housing really is affordable housing that is maintained by the by the owners of these particular projects and if they don't make money then they can't stay in business. So the people that have opposed this because they're fearable increase in crime really I think are on the opposite end of this. We really need to make sure that we we have affordable housing over the entire community. With That said, let's start with the Glen Park development. If there is someone from that development here, if you would come forward and offer some comments and allow for some questions from council. Thank you. My name is Paul Holden, and I represent VCZ development. And I decided to drop the Metaphols application simply because we try to be respectful of the communities that we're gonna build in. And I certainly didn't wanna bring that in front of the city council with having some negative issues with it. But the Glenn Park's apartment, I think we have an opportunity here that is somewhat unique this year. It's a 60-year development. It's on the Southern entrance to the Air Force Base. Now, in the past, every year, the Texas Department of Housing and Community Affairs will create what they call a QAP, which provides the rules that we all have to go through, and there's a scoring matrix that's a very competitive process. So within that, it'll tell us which areas of the city we are gonna go to to get the maximum points.

[2:15:53] This is the very first year that I've looked at this, and there is a potential opportunity near the Goodfellow Air Force Base. Now, there are a lot of people at work there, lot of airmen that cannot afford the larger rents that you're seeing. This is maybe the I don't know if the rules are going to change next year possibly they've changed every year but I think we have a unique opportunity to use these funds to provide housing for the Air Force Base and I'm going to ask that you give there's you'll speak about it later but there's also another property to the North entrance of the Air Force Base, and I would normally come to say, we're such great developers, please give us the only resolution of support. However, from a community standpoint, I think that both the applications that are near the Air Force Base need to get approved. Now, here's what's going to happen. If you get all of the developers' resolutions of support, I can guarantee you there there will be no award anywhere near the Air Force Base because the point scoring is going this year. However, if you give resolutions of support to these two properties, I can guarantee you that one or both of them will get done. And I think that would be something very good for your community and since the Air Force Base is such a large part of the economy in San Angelo, I think it's something that I would like for you to consider. As far as the community itself, it is sixty units, two and three bedroom units. We have another slide Bob that shows the buildings here. There we go. This is the prototype that we are looking to build. Some of that is going to change. The architecture is going to change with the dark stone on the bottom. This is shown as brick, but we use a lot of natural stone in Texas.

[2:17:53] We pack a lot of amenities into these. We have managers. of our own development, construction, and management companies that we own. And so we take it the whole process vertically. And I've been with this company for 16 years. I have never seen them sell a property. They buy other properties of tax credits. They do not sell. So we're a very long term, we're committed long term to the city of San Angelo with first property that we have under construction now. With that, questions? Just council have a question on this Glen Park Apartments project. I Don't have a question, but I just wanted to say to mr. Holden You were at the town hall meeting And I just want to say that on behalf of this residents in district six I just want to thank you for being sensitive to the feedback that was given at that town hall meeting I really do appreciate that thank you so much. Thank you very much. I appreciate that Further question or comment All right, thank you. Thank you very much. We'll now have a presentation on the trails if there's someone here from the trails You want to take cherry trails first Yes, it's on our list though. No the trails by Generation housing development. It's next on our list City Council, my name is Adrian Iglesias, I'm president of Generation Housing. I'm the developer that is proposing the trails. It's going to be a 72-unit apartment community is going to be completely gated with access gates. We're going to have one, two, and three bedroom apartments. We will have only two stories and I just wanted to address a couple of the comments that I heard in the town hall

[2:19:54] meeting regarding crime. And what we do in our developments to address that is we gate our communities. We do background checks for all our tenants to come in. I mean we're required to. We also install cameras throughout our development on the entrances and exits through our buildings and they're all monitored by our manager on the property. We also, you know, if there's not an HOA organized in the area, we would help the HOA get organized. We would pay for those fees to be registered with the state. We would hold monthly meetings at my clubhouse to talk about the neighborhood and the crime if there's any. We've also hired a police officer in some of our communities to actually live on our properties. And in his off time, he walks the property. He also drives the neighborhood when he can't and checks that everything's okay. Now, I think that was the biggest concern in this side of town. And I'm here if you have any questions. Lucy? Adrian, the phone calls that I had gotten from the constituents in that area was mainly also the traffic because the street is so narrow. You know, what would happen in that situation? I think it's the site streets, baby, Because eras is a white street. Well, it's, you know, un-improved land. You know, where would it be helpful to assist in widening the street at that location? In a lot of times, I feel that, you know, I read in the paper where these affordable homes or low income, as they were known back in the day, they have this thing about them, is that they think the crime comes with them,

[2:21:54] that drugs come with them. It's a whole different kind of ball game now. I was raised in low income housing by my single mom. And I'm thankful to God that they had him. And not only that, but we also always say when we're campaigning that our main objective is to help people. And I feel that this is the time that we can help the people in this community for them to have a better place to live, for them to be as fortunate as some people are in this room that can afford a nice place to live. So thank you very much. Absolutely, and this is the second development that is within the Goodfell's Air Forward Force Base. And out of the two, I just hope that you support this one. Because if you do support two of them, this won't get done. And this is our second year that we're here. Actually, we've been trying to develop here in your city for the last five years. We're right up the street in Brady, Texas, with us a couple of years, so much. Wait a minute. I mean, Carrie has a question or comment. Thank you, I appreciate that. Even though this is technically in Lucy's district, it's only about four or five blocks from my house. And we're actually right around the corner from where my son and granddaughters live. This will be an upgrade to that particular area of the community, and I will tell you, I share Lucy's concern on the street, and that may be something that we're gonna have to address sometime in the future if this is successful, but this will certainly, certainly be an upgrade in that area of the community. So, I support it wholeheartedly. Thank you so much, sir. Yeah, I'm okay. The next project we will talk about is Cherry Trails. Yes, oh wait, sorry, come on up. Well, okay. Okay. Do I take public comment now or wait till I have a motion?

[2:23:55] Is totally up to you. When let's go ahead and take public comment with each of these. I think it's easier to do and it'll keep us focused. So please come forward with a comment or comments. No objection to public housing in any way. Should you please tell us your name? Yes. I'm what's left of Lynn Trensky and I have lived on Evelyn Avenue. That is the name of that street. It's not Evelyn Street. It's Evelyn Avenue, and the signpost still says that there for over 50 years. I have no objection to having any kind of building put in that area except one I have yet to hear, which is we have a stormwater runoff area there that is serious. They get runoff from Bell Street down through that area and five other directions. Our houses get flooded over and over and over. They will not support the building of that kind of a project. The water runoff is right adjacent to the stormwater area. It's above the stormwater runoff area the building is. All of that runs right down. Evan Avenue is the lowest place between Bell Street and the river, which is the natural Arroya and runoff for that area. So I just have to tell y'all that I can't support this particular building area and I don't think you could either if you were living there. We are the eight project on the city listing of major projects that have to be corrected.

[2:26:04] They're on the list already. We don't know when that will happen. But we just cannot sustain any higher water runoff in that area. And it may be a low income area. It used to be a nice area. But that doesn't matter. Do you not understand that those are our homes in there? I can't believe that you don't understand that that's what we're up against in that area. And if you put 72 units, I don't care how well they are created, but every street between where those are written and the Bell Street area is going to suffer. And if you don't believe me, please take the time to check it out. I call the engineering department twice and left messages. They never answered. Thank God my mayor checked it out and asked them to go look at it. I would like to know what the results of that survey that they did are because we have fought this problem along with the city for over 50 years. That's how well-known that area is, and I am not exaggerating in any way what it's going to cost us if you put that in there. I can't believe the developers don't know that. May I have somebody from engineering come up and speak to the issue of stormwater runoff, please? The other thing we don't know is how the Bell Street project itself is going to affect the run off in that area. It's going to add to it. Russell. Alright so without having done any recent research on this project I'm not 100% familiar with it but typical standards of this type of construction require the on-site detention to

[2:28:05] mitigate the effects of new development for runoff specifically so what they would be looking at is, you know, currently, you know, as it stands, as the property stands right now, what the runoff looks like from that standpoint, and then what's proposed to be running off. So they won't be, it'll have a negative or a net zero impact on the drainage coming off of that property. We require them to detain it on site. Okay. That's a different issue. That's a different issue. We're going to have one comment at a time and we're not going to take comments from the audience. speak and you have a comment you will need to come forward and speak to the microphone and I'm tickled to death to have everybody comment. All right thank you Lance did you have any additions to add to that conversation? Sure actually I can give some info any any kind of commercial development or any kind of housing development our current guidelines and standards are is that they actually have to do a drainage study and what that drainage study requires them to do is go back to what the what the configuration was in a undeveloped state and then compare that to what is going to be in a developed state and any change in that state between the undeveloped and the developed you actually have to do some kind of detention on site which means you have to put that water into a holding pond put that water into an underground holding pond put that into flower bed put that into areas so that way the net change of of what's going on in the site does not cause additional runoff to leave the site. Now that's not going to affect anything that's currently existing, as far as an existing condition, that is something that was put in place in 2010 when we adopted our new stormwater design manual and stormwater ordinances. And so every subdivision moving forward and planned housing development has to actually go through that process and we do review that on a regular basis and inspect those structures

[2:30:05] to make sure that they're still compliant. At this point, this hasn't been done because we are not in a design part. We're in a preliminary part in a concept phase. That would actually occur, but prior to them being able to receive a permit, prior to them having plating actions, it's not ever done in a concept phase. It's, at this point, it's a concept phase and the detailed stuff doesn't occur until actually it's been accepted and moved on into a design phase. to the microphone if you would, please. People usually tell me they could hear me for a city block. But anyway, so if you accept it, the support of the project today, then it's after that that they would do all of this. And what effect would that have? Could it be turned down because it's y'all's stormwater plan that's threatened here? The current one. go ahead and answer that. Actually, what would end up happening is we would not issue a permit if those guidelines had not actually been met. And so at an engineering level or at the permit level, they are required to maintain and mitigate those things according to the ordinance. And so at any point in that process, if it's not taken care of, then they just would not receive a permit and issue a permit which would pretty much stop the project. Question I'm hearing is, or the statement that you've made is that it would it would have to go back to existing conditions as of today. And what I'm hearing is existing conditions today are allowed for flooding as it exists. So if we're gonna do that, don't we wanna correct it back to the point where it's not about today's problem, it's about what problem was created prior to today being corrected at the same point in time that the new development would happen. And so I can answer that, Amira.

[2:32:08] Currently our ordinance does not allow us to go retroactively. and make a development that's existing, go back and remedy a situation to bring them up to a current standard. Case in point, we have quite a few different shopping complexes that are 100% impervious that were constructed prior to that. If they take one building down, there is nothing in our ordinance currently to actually make us go back and have them be made compliant to what the current standard is. However, most of the developments coming in are very sensitive to that. And what we have asked them to do is that to at least increase the previous areas, we actually have a current housing development that is another senior housing development that they actually willingly are retaining more than what they were supposed to to help out an area because it is currently impacted. And so most developers are very much on board with assisting the city and trying to help out a situation knowing if it's problematic or not, simply by us requesting and or having those discussions during that design process. And it has occurred on multiple occasions. Okay. Let's let the developer make a comment. And you can be in holding. I understand your concerns. Okay. And we're very sensitive to that. And we have 14 acres, so we do have room to extend our detention pond to serve like a regional detention pond to help your community out in flooding. So your commitment is to improve, go beyond what's necessary and expected to improve it over what exists today so that it corrects some historical problems. Ooh, yes ma'am. How do you stay up with people pushing them away from me?

[2:34:14] How would that affect the history? This has been a stormwater drainage area that's listed on the master plan to be corrected by the city. So if you won't go back and do that, you're telling me that we take it on faith. Now this has been a 50-year battle, okay? And so my faith is just a little afraid around the edges, and I do not direct that at you, okay? But I've lived there long enough to see people have to move their furniture up off, and because we get that kind of water run off there, and nothing has changed in that land. That's a natural arroya that was deeded to this city by, and I know the history of where it came from, that runoff came through Goodfellow Air Force Base, the base dated it to the city and you can check this all out. I have it in records at home because it's not my first rodeo, okay? And I can't blame you all. If you were not aware of this situation, so it's not accusatory, it's how are we going to ever get dis-rectified? I don't want y'all to run into problems any more than I want our problems to enter. What I hear is, and I think everyone's listening one second, What I do want to do is give other people in the audience an opportunity to speak. We can come back and add some additional conversations following further people, but I'd like some other people to speak as well. Thank you. And I'm grateful to y'all for your attention and your concern about this, because it's a very real problem for Evelyn Street. We are the lowest area from Bell Street to the river. So we get runoff from all five streets leading up to this. And water doesn't run out uphill. Thank you. It's a problem. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Do I have further public comment on this issue, so please come forward.

[2:36:14] My name's Greg Myers and I was hoping to wait until after all four were there, but since these two are the ones that are particularly concerned, I'd like to make comment right now. I've been engaged one way or another and sometimes more deeply than I wanted to, and all for the last four projects that have been approved by the state for tax credits and just in general it would be good if we didn't have to go with the same stuff every time that comes from people not being educated about what they are. We've had four projects, they were designed to be inside four areas that the city had called blighted some time ago and that were slated for revitalization. And I'd say this, but St. Angelo is kind of a rock star down at the state, because we've had four projects approved. So very many times, we've had none at all considered. And this is because we have seen the value of these projects, and we have made them multipliers and a ripple effect for the development of the whole area. And when you talk about things, affordable housing not very sexy. It really isn't. You have these things. We get $10 million here, $5 million here of those four projects. Over $30 million of construction was put on the ground. And that included areas that were really, really blighted. And they have so raised the level along with all the other components of the coalition that $45 million have been put on the ground in about the last 12 years, and this was a considerable part, and that's why when we went down to state and been turned down so many times, when we put the multipliers in, they saw how good they were for the whole community. That's one of the reasons that they finally bought in to the NOAA project and to the one up on 29th Street. And what I'd like to suggest

[2:38:19] is that the theology that these lower property values is just that, and we need to deal with facts. And from studies nationally, when you look at even more fluent areas, if they're on the periphery of the neighborhood and not in the middle, and if they're well designed and they're attractive, they do not in any way, shape, or form in a significant way affect lower property values. So as you look at these four, I'd like to make some suggestions about two of them for your consideration. When you go down the state, it's a blood sport. I mean, we've sat there for all day long, riding down on a bus at four in the morning to advocate for what we want, and we've listened to hundreds of these projects. A small project will not be approved if you have any other alternatives. Secondly, if there's any opposition from the community. It generally does not get approval. And so when you don't go down there with the full approval of the council and nobody that follows up to complain about them, it's dead meat. I don't have to use a phrase I guess I shouldn't have probably used. But the fact of the matter is today there are two projects that are two projects, these two that you've looked at that should be considered. We don't need them right now in the four blighted areas, formerly blighted areas, because they've done their work. But these two have, in addition to being good projects, they have the emotional appeal that they're serving the military base. And just from a strategic and emotional and salesmanship standpoint, I would say if you prove these two, one or both of them might have a good chance. Otherwise, it limits the chance that any of them have. Thank you. Thank you, Craig. Yes, sir, please. And please state your name. Would you please state your name? Mario Geary. OK. Last year, a year before last, when it

[2:40:19] rained like four or five days real hard, the water was coming down fast back there at the runoff at my mom's house right in front of that. The runoff runs right behind my mom's house. No boy was stuck out there in his car and couldn't get out and the water was moving his car and he got on top of the car and then the water was coming in. And if we didn't get him out of there, he would have ground. You know, that's how bad that is over there and nobody has done nothing about it for years and I've heard, they're going to do this, they're going to do that, ain't done nothing, and they're going to leave it the same way. And then my apartment complexes that y'all want to put there, I'd rather see the deer and in the wild turkey that runs out there every morning when I'm drinking my coffee. I'd rather see that than the apartment complexes. We don't need them there. Thank you. Thank you. Do I have further public comment on the trails? Yes, sir, please come forward. Yes, my name is Richard Ringel, and that was opposed to the project when they counted the streets, and Mr. Thomas knows they're narrow. And you're going to put that many complex, you're going to have a lot of kids. And those Christians narrow, mainly just for one vehicle, if there's cars parked on the side. And the little kids coming from the elementary school don't have a place to walk. You're going to be coming through the streets, walking through there with all that traffic, going through there all the time when In the morning or in the afternoon when the schools are or gone and I have a concern for that I mean the little kids being run over by vehicle because the streets are narrow and

[2:42:24] I haven't not jumped to that putting that much traffic in those narrow streets. Thank you very much for the comment. Hi I'm Jay Mullum I'm a somewhat representing generation of housing development on the 72 units we're currently talking about trails. I bring the construction arm to the to the development we currently have 360 units under construction in Midland Dessa another 272 starting in Fort Worth all affordable except Midland Dessa and I just want to give to all the concerned constituents construction stuff out here it's difficult I heard one of the other previous gentleman talk about the scale of economy and that's accurate that's a very accurate statement what we can I say we collectively as generation housing and the company I work for BC contracting we can pledge that we will minimize the construction to less than 12 months on 72 units the other deals I've seen here they seem to be kind of stalling out or in the kind of a hard spot, just the simple fact that perhaps the tax reform has kind of monkeyed with the construction budgets. And the number two, just a lack of work force here, we bring our own people in, we do allow the local city to RP, if there's mechanical contractor, framers, sheet rockers, if they can man it up and hit our budget, by all means we're hiring locally. But our main deal is we come in, we build a good project, a nice project, and granite countertops. Fantastic ex-users that are going to be very sensitive to the neighborhood. We're willing to meet with the developer in the neighborhood and say, what do you want? You know, I mean, it's a project that there you need. It's going to bring a $7 to $8 million advert on taxes, like quickly, to a blighted area that needs help. It really does.

[2:44:25] So that's my two cents. It's on the construction side. Sometimes I'm on the developer side, so I do wear many hats, but you wear hat relative to supporting and the runoff and the detention pawns We're blessed. I We got to make sure the citizens don't get a negative impact from this. It's a great concern to mind to hear about these flooding issues It's not acceptable that we would put up a project that would create more negativity to their life, their quality of life. So I need to make sure that in fact you are committed to improving the flooding situation beyond existing conditions. Yes, I'll make that pledge. In fact, we're blessed. We've got it's a fairly long, deep track. Our development really will only sit on the front side. all of our construction the station areas will be on the backside so that should not impact the city local streets out there with the children walking in any of the additional cars. That was a yes to the retention detention ponds right? A solid yes and then we will also go as far with the city's engineering's help and of course our private civil engineer that will help if there's any additional adjoining properties that can benefit from our our oversized detention pond. Ball means baffle into them. If we can catch the flow, we'll discharge it. So. Okay, I have some other further comment. Come forward, please. Yes, Mayor, and the councilman, my name is Johnny Sandoval. I live on Evelyn Avenue. That street is now not the more than where you can get two cars, one going, the one to come in. Evelyn is one of the highest most trafficked streets There is when the school is open. We got people that walk the dogs,

[2:46:26] and we got people that walk and run, and ride the bicycles. And that water drainage, when the water is going almost about an inch from going in through my patio. I've had to kick the windows out to let the water go through. The water went through my living room out through my kitchen. So it's a mess over there. So I figured that if they put his house in there, it's gonna be worse. The city has gone over there and graded our alley and to help it out, it hasn't happened. The water's going through now. Thank you. Any further comment on yes sir? Come forward. Your name please. I've been living on Evelyn Avenue for about five years, and the water flow comes across the house area there, and then it crosses Evelyn Street. That water is so dangerous over there that it can pull kids in. I've seen trucks being back there. We pull people out from back there one time just throwing ropes out there like we had lasso and horses and stuff because it's that soft back there and the water just piles up and somebody what I'm afraid of is you can put up all the fences you want to but like the gentleman said that's that grammar school that's right down the street from our house these kids you can see them they cut through the lands they cut back yards you know and it's it's just what it is but it is it's real dangerous down there and if you ever get a chance to go by there because you know you guys do put up the cones and everything but if you ever

[2:48:28] get a chance to go by there when it's really raining it's terrible and it's real dangerous that's all I'm saying so and for us my sister-in-law's house got flooded that water come all the way up into the house from Maryland Street back to that gores back there so it's just a good thing to think about because because the kids are my concern. You know, I have grandkids and stuff and I'm sure everybody else, and they'll wander off. I see a shortcut, I did it when I was growing up hell. I cut through a seventh area to get to other side of town, but I appreciate you listening here and thank you guys very much. Thank you very much. Further public comment? No further comment on the trails. We will go to cherry trails. Good morning, good afternoon at this point, maybe. Thank you, Council. My name is Michael Fogel with Four Corners Development. We are proposing a couple of projects, one of which is called Cherry Trails, which is in the southwest part of the city of Appaloosa Trail on the south side of Sherwood Way. We are proposing a duplex type construction project, and we also do apartments. In this instance, we're proposing duplexes Because in this area I think it would be a very good product, kind of south of the apartment so that it helped transition from the boulevard apartments into kind of a lower density area to the south and that can be facilitated through the use of duplexes. It also provides kind of a nice sense of space at home for affordable housing so although it's affordable we've still got kind of a home like environment for senior citizens in this 55 and older development, and we also do apartment development, so I'm not saying that it's one is better than the other, but they each have their place in it. It's good to offer both.

[2:50:30] We looked very hard at this location, have been working with SKG engineering on the design of both the horizontal infrastructure and the streets and drainage as well, and we're also working with SKG on our apartment down the street. So the project would come in off Appaloosa Trail, which is a wide arterial, it's 40 or 50 feet wide, and it's kind of the back entrance to the boulevard apartments. Not much traffic on that street would come into our new property and we would actually build a separate road that comes into our development. So there's not much there right now, it's mostly a field, but in the future, as this area does get developed we would have you know a very minimal impact on traffic and I say that because this presents a good opportunity to to plan kind of do smart planning and smart growth of an area that's still under development as opposed to sometimes when we're trying to fit into a kind of existing area and we've worked closely with Rocky Temple and who are purchasing the land from and who's kind of the home builder to the east on kind of a mutually beneficial and well thought out design. But anyways, it's 60 units on there, it'd actually be 48 units. That's plenty of units to get awarded at the state. Our last project here was actually just 36 units, and that was successful. There's a number of good projects in front of you today. As has been mentioned, it's highly competitive down at the state, and there's not much of sales pitch it's a objective points based system. So with that being said I would ask council to support support all the projects which will give the city the best chance of getting an award. Thank you. Do I have public comment on the Cherry Trails project? I have a question. Billy please. Why did you go from 60

[2:52:32] in it's to 48. Mostly we ran out of room and two things we estimated 60 at the very beginning of the process and we always want to estimate on the high end because it's easier to revise downward with some notification and density notifications we have to make so we thought it's going to be 48 to 60 we put out a high number earlier in the process so that as we get into design, which we have now, we can revise it down or as needed. So we've kind of settled into 48th this point. But as a 48-unit project, we wouldn't necessarily be using the same number of credits as a 70-unit project. So it could still allow other projects to use credits and get an award as well. Lucy did you have a I was just going to ask Bob I think it was Reverend Myers that mentioned earlier that smaller complexes had a more difficult time of getting approved what's the difference in size between a small and a large well I can tell you that we had a 36-unit actually single family housing at the the black tree area, and that was very competitive. I'm sorry, it was not competitive at first, but we were able to, we were successfully able to overcome that. So they like to go from 70 to 100. And again, I'm just talking generally, because what we've seen at the state is that large complexes are more attractive, more numbers, more people you can help, obviously. That gives us the concept. for our city like San Angelo, I think these numbers, 48, 60 are very competitive, I think, in the word of 72.

[2:54:34] So I think we're okay as far as numbers go. How do they look at it, duplexes versus apartments? Because it's one thing if you're talking apartments and you talk 72 to 100, it's another, if you're talking single family or duplexes, my assumption would be there's a different analysis or thought process that goes into apartment complexes versus duplex and or single family. So then the numbers would mean something different. And it probably do. I just can't address that. Because I, you know, 2D HCA, that QAP is pretty something that's thick. And I don't go, I peruse it, but I don't dig down to the details. So I can't really address that. Maybe one of the developers can't. The state looks at it more as a unit. So whether it's a duplex or an apartment on the third floor of a building, it's still providing, Yeah, it's still providing a bedroom and a home for someone. Lucy, you had? Yes, I just wanted to make sure I would realize this is just for the elderly, correct? That's correct. This is for 55 and older. Any other questions or comments on cherry trails? Steve, do you have a question? I have a question, and it comes in the form of does the infrastructure support to further building in this area? I wonder about water mains and sewer because we have a lot of building going on over there. I have, you know, what is the capacity, how many inches of pipe or the size of pipe that we have and that kind of thing. I'd like to hear that. I have no objection with the concept but the fact that we are getting a lot of building in that direction interests me. Do I have an engineer here to speak to that subject lands? Can you come forward? It's Lance Overstreet Engineering Services. This area over here is as quite a bit of capacity

[2:56:49] Back behind the boulevard apartments everything from the bluffs tanks feeds this and so we have more than enough capacity in this area With both the line sizes as well as the delivery system and storage Rocky, did you have a comment that you wanted to add, sir? Rocky Templin, a builder and developer. We started pressing wood edition about 10 years ago, and we joined this and this is the future for my project, which toward the end of single-family residential, be with duplexes and then apartments next to it is ideal situation for housing. Also on the infrastructure that when we started pressing wood, and we're actually running 18-inch seramines and 12-inch water lines that will continue all the way out to this end of the project, so which is much larger than a lot of the city has. Thank you. Thank you. Further comment on Cherry Hill? Cherry Trails, sorry. No further comment, we will move on to the fourth one, which is two-week plaza. Still Michael Fogel with Four Parners Development. This is is our other project, very, very excited about this opportunity and the ability to present it to council. In this instance, we're proposing a redevelopment of the historic St. Angela National Bank building. Obviously, a very beautiful building at the corner of Tewig and Chadburn, right here downtown. And this property is an opportunity to redevelop and revitalize building that has been occupied on the first floor, the first two floors for a number of years, but it's been mostly vacant on the upper floors since at least

[2:58:49] the 80s when the current owners purchased it. So what what we're looking to do is actually just purchase floors three through eight, so the upper floors of this historic building, and historically the building it was a bank, the bank lobby was was on the ground floor, and there's a mezzanine second floor. And that's what you see here is that entrance. And then there's always been a separate entrance off two-week for what over a number of years have been offices on floors three through eight. So what we're looking to do is we'd be partnering with the existing ownership group and just rehabilitating those upper floors for residential use. So it's a wonderful opportunity to bring 30 rooftops downtown. Again, this is also an elderly population. And when I say elderly, that means 55 and older. So not for lower income as well? It is, yes. Because I've loosely brought up a good question a minute ago. Because sometimes it says elderly. Sometimes we're talking low income. So I think we need to be very clear on the terminology. It's elderly. And it's not that we're not, I mean I just think we need to be clear. It's affordable housing and in this case it's also affordable housing for the elderly. And what that means is generally this project would be for people who are making 26, most of the units would be for people making 26 to $30,000 a year and the rent would be in the seven to eight hundred dollar range and there's obviously some stigma sometimes against affordable you know with affordable housing and there's been a couple comments about affordable housing downtown and to that end I think the most important thing is that at this income range like right now in the city's

[3:00:49] website there's eighteen open jobs for city of St. Angelo positions city government jobs. Sixteen of those eighteen would qualify would be income qualifying households for our property. Do they have to be fifty five and older? They do, yes. Certainly. It's not just income, it's income and age. Yes, it is. And there's there's numerous vacant buildings out downtown. We looked at looked at most all of them toward them, what we're doing, nothing about this project would prevent another developer from redeveloping one of the other many vacant buildings downtown into non-elderly or non-affordable housing. The buildings been vacant for you know a few decades and you know we're hoping to have the opportunity to kind of revitalize it, put it back on the tax tax rolls and bring a population down town. So it's 30 units, but you know, people- Isn't it on the tax rolls now? It is, let me re- let me re- say that, put it back on the tax rolls at a full assessment and value. It's not really being taxed much anything because it's vacant. since once we put $5 million into it, get at least stopped, and it's rehabilitated and populated would be a much more significant impact on the tax rule. I was just going to just Ryan Hamilton and Four Corners Development, and just to piggyback off of what Michael is saying there. We have developed in other communities where buildings, historic buildings like this, And it seems like it can really be a catalyst, and something that can push forward

[3:02:49] the development in the downtown locations. As you know, it's kind of a chicken and the egg thing. The, so if you have businesses dining a restaurant, or if you have shopping down there, you obviously need, like Michael was saying, the rooftops that would be added, you need the people there to be able to utilize and spend money. And so I think that being able to, we have a real opportunity here, and the application is gonna be smitten, will be very competitive, and an opportunity to be able to pump, you know, over $5 million into the downtown region. And I think that's big for really any downtown, so. So, many of the people who look at developing projects downtown have an issue with parking. How do you address parking? Well, we have, Michael, if you, Yeah, we're also, there's a lot next to this building at 211 South Chadburn, that's another building, another, I think it was a historic building that burned down. And so now it's just a pit, a hole in the ground where the basement used to be, and there's a concrete center block wall around it. So we would be purchasing that along with this building and turning that into a parking lot. So with senior living and affordable, you're looking at a little bit lower vehicular usage percentage. The rule of thumb in the industry is 0.5 to 0.75 cars per unit. So probably looking at about 20 to 24 spaces that would be parked. I will note that downtown and the central business zoning actually has no off-street parking requirement. And it has three-hour limitations.

[3:04:53] That's right. But there's so you're asking about parking, so I think it's fair to mention that there is no off-street parking requirement. But we are going to be providing off-street parking via that lot that's that's firmed up right now. We'll also have, it'll be 18 months before people move into this building because the awards for the tax credits are not until the end of summer and then there's some other steps that happen before starting construction. So we will have plenty of time to, you know, should it be warranted and to obtain other off street parking from a number of vacant lots right behind us and in the area. I feel very confident we can we can address the the needed parking for this building. What is your dollars per square foot? I don't I don't I don't want to miss I don't want to miss quote. You're talking about 30 units and you're talking about five floors so that would be six units per floor. Is that correct? That's correct. Yes. And so some of them are are they all single one-bedroom? Are they two-bedroom what are they they're mostly they're mostly one bedroom I think 23 one bed and 7 to bed you're not looking at as a dollar per square foot no more more per unit so most units would be reserved for 60% of the of the median income is that your twenty six to thirty thousand dollar income? That's correct, yes. And so the rent for most units would be six seventy five to about eight hundred. And that would be for one and two bedrooms. And I think something also important to mention is that even though we're talking seniors they have disposable income I mean you know we're all having to work Longer later into into our lives of to where you know mid 60s late 60s and so with the disposal income

[3:06:55] That'll be obviously be used in the downtown area mostly the highest income available to rent a place here's 30,000 Correct Which is a lot of city jobs and most of the school district jobs of the non-teaching jobs at the school district All under that mark as well Do I have other questions from City Council before I ask for some public comment on this project? Do I public comment from on this project? Tony Hunter and I actually own a building, a couple of buildings right in this area, went across the street and I guess some of my concerns would be we do a Wednesday night thing every week for the elderly, it's great, we love doing it, everybody comes in but I can tell you that the average spending for a person is $6. As a fixed income, I think thinking that people over 55 or 60 that would actually live there. Number one, we're getting older. And we have an elevator. How are you going to move people in and out of this thing? The older you get, the harder it gets. They're going to go take what we're going to take stairs today. Well, that's another thing in itself. You know, downtown property owner, I think we can do better things with this building. And I'm just going to leave it right there. for the public comment. Good afternoon. My name is Del Velasquez. I'm the executive director for downtown San Angelo. And we oppose this project predominantly because of the economic development aspects of it. When you bring in, and by the way, I wanted to make sure,

[3:08:58] because at the public forum, the rents were 400 to 600, not 602, what was it? 800. He said 675 to 800. the public forum is 400 to 500 and have our third-party market study complete at the public forum I do now and technically it's 691 to 829 okay but more more importantly what happens with this type of project in an unproven undeveloped market is that you deter other investment opportunities to come in because they're not going to be able to and when I'm talking about deter I'm talking about market rate development when you're when an investor investment groups and certainly they're going to take advantage if it's a historic building and they're eligible to apply for those credits they're definitely going to do that to reduce their expenses but getting the other financial funding for those projects then are reduced when you don't have market rate and we don't have a proven market in downtown for downtown living and so that's that's the dilemma that we face we want to make sure that we don't discourage other developers that are doing market rate development for the other buildings that are in the downtown district to to come into play and it makes it very difficult in fact in some cases it kills that opportunity so that's that's That's the reason downtown San Angelo E does not support this particular project as this particular time. Thank you. If I have any questions of me. Do I have further public comment?

[3:11:00] I just would like to respond to what Mr. Velasquez said. These items are not mutually exclusive. We can have some affordable housing and market rate units coexisting downtown. Nothing we are doing would deter any market rate developer from building or developing or redeveloping downtown. In fact, we think it would demonstrate a demand for housing downtown and help encourage other developers to come in. Oftentimes, what you see with at least the residential component of downtown revitalization is that the first project in the door has to utilize kind of a whole bevy of tax credits. So we're using the affordable and historic tax credits and kind of help pave the way for the market rate. And there's no impact on the underwriting whatsoever for a market rate developer, whether it's their financing or their bank loan in comparison to affordable housing. An underwriter is not going to look at the rents the rents for an affordable project because it's it's not a competitive project to a market rate units it's a complete different ballpark in arena there's really no impact and if anything there's a you know positive encouragement to that end. So no developer would look at comp prices on rental units in a downtown area when they're looking at financing a project. It would not look at affordable they would only look at the other market rate units correct. Other further comment? My name is Dana Cercos and I'm with our local non-profit agency, disability connections in our Consul Valley Aging and Disability Resource Center. And so I was waiting until all of the low income tax credit properties were presented

[3:13:01] because as a housing navigator for our Consul Valley Aging and Disability Resource Center, we support all affordable, integrated, and accessible housing in our city. Are you speaking specifically to this project? Yes, well to all the projects well we're speaking specifically this project right now. I'll give you an opportunity to all projects in a minute But this is yes, I'm okay right now. We'll give you an opportunity. Okay, then I can wait Okay, any further comment on two-week plasma There's no further comment on two-week plasma. We will Take Bob, did you have something you want to present? No, ma'am. At this point, we will just take your vote and see what you think. And again, you can pick one, two of them. It's your call. We have staff support them all, but you've heard some other opinions, so it's up to you. And I would like you to come forward and comment on all the four projects we're going to vote on. Our agency serves persons with disabilities, and we don't just serve like low-income persons, we serve persons of all incomes with all types of disabilities. And one of the main things that they are always seeking is affordable housing. And so anything that brings more affordable housing to our city, we're in support of. Our housing navigators, with the coalition that I'm a part of, they're all throughout the state. of us are working to try to increase that housing for our seniors and for our families because we work with people with disabilities of all ages. So we're in total support of any of your low income tax credit properties that you can approve today, especially the two that are in favor of the affordable housing for families.

[3:15:09] Thank you. Thank you for coming back up. All right, at this point then I think what we will do is take a vote on each individual project. Is that what we need to do? And yes, Tom? I'm not sure if I understand the process here. If I could have somebody go, do we all get one vote? We have multiple votes? Are we supposed to only pick one? No, you can take a separate motion on each one of these resolutions. And then there'll be a vote of the entire council. What we're going to be doing is voting each individual project and you have a vote on each individual project, yay or nay. And then at the end, I assume what we need to do is have the entire council then do a vote on the final or just a single vote per each, right? And so what I want to do is to review just for a minute a couple of things that were said to clarify for everyone. One is that it's a very competitive process that Mr. Myers commented on the fact that it is a very competitive process that we need to be focused in our support of these projects because when they go to state for support that will be in consideration that very often projects that have negative comments towards them are not projects that can't will probably be supported by the state. And the larger projects versus smaller projects tend to have a greater capacity for support. Those are not my thoughts. Those are thoughts offered by the comments today. So I just want to offer those up as a recap and then we will start on the vote. Yes, Tommy, I see an eye on perplexed. We're going to vote on each project. So if

[3:17:10] If they all pass, regardless of whether it's 7-0 or 4-3, what good does that do in terms of what these folks are, it seems to me we would focus on one or two. That's the reason I said that Craig Myers suggested the following that if you support all four, the chances are we don't score so well and so we, Daniel, did you want to comment on that? I know it's I put down a matter of strategy because we are competing with Odessa, Midland. Obviously there's only going to be one project that will be selected. I want our community to be selected and that's what it comes down to. So I just want to make sure that we're not careless in looking at all the projects and say we support all of them. I think they all have merit but when we look at it my big concern is just making sure that we do have a project that's selected for our community. So is there strategy associated with that based on what we heard from Paul Holden and Craig Myers, as far as a number of units, we need to make sure that we take a look at that as far as I'm concerned to make sure that we can secure one of these projects here locally. That's my thought on that. Mayor? Yes, yes sir. Brian. I just wanted to offer if by consensus y'all want to consider only one or two projects when there's no need to take a vote on the other ones you could just let them die. So if you want to have a discussion related to the consensus of of taking a vote on one or two items, you can certainly do that as well. Thank you. And Lucy. I just wanted to make a comment that I think that we should go ahead and just support one project. That way we have, I mean, the developer goes up there knowing that we're all behind that one project, instead of so many that, you know, it can split whoever goes up there. And luckily they said we're going to have to go up against and I'm guessing I think if we just pick one, it would be better. And would you like to make a motion on one? Please I make a motion on the trails Is there a second on that I second that but I will make one other comment if I may and I

[3:19:15] Think if we pick two projects We're not going to lock one out from the other and just let them fall where they may in that competition with with Midland Odessa So I can support the trails, but I could also support one other one. So yes I'm not I'm not yeah, I'm not opposed to any four of them I'm just looking at the specs right now on how many bedrooms are available on each and and the number of units and You know the trails does look like it it provides the bigger variety range family household 72 units Metaphalls was knocked out it had 76 But everything else is following, Max of 60, 64ish, so we are going to be supporting of just one going that way to be on the competitive route, and that might be the route, but I think all four of them would be a great choice. So, Lucy, the motion on the floor is to support the trails as you presented it, and... That doesn't preclude, this is an annual event, and the generation housing said they've been trying here five years, so I assume others might try again as well, if theirs were not selected. I do want to point out as well that I really like the idea of supporting our mission with Goodfiller Air Force Base as part of the location, and if you start looking, and I know that we heard maybe one other project, maybe we do look at the second project at this point to make sure that we are looking that it's supporting that as well. I mean that's the shortage that we do have our community and that's something that we definitely want to take a serious look at. We know that we're going to expand missions at Goodfellow. We're going to need affordable housing for those young men and women. So I think this is an opportunity for us to do that. I'm a competition last year where we awarded. Yeah four corners got one. Lucy

[3:21:19] did you want to amend your motion? Yes ma'am I'll go ahead and amend it for the trails in Glen Park. All in favor? Any opposed? I want to make sure with that vote that the people who live in the area of the trails is supported by the company who said under all circumstances they are going to look at and take care of the flooding issues with detention ponds so that those families who've dealt with plumbing, I mean with flooding, are taking care of on this project. It's their opportunity right now to get their flooding issues addressed. Mayor, let me make a comment. I think this company will do a very, very good job of making sure that we don't make this situation worse. But because I live in that particular area about three blocks from Evelyn I know how it floods I think it's a responsibility of the city to figure out if we could partner some way to whether to help this particular situation with this what this developer on this I would encourage the developer if they're successful with these tax credits to work with the city to find a long-term solution to this issue on Evelyn not just the building up on on your street. Yes, you may. And I hope it's to say, you're going to take responsibility to help these citizens. I'm going to repeat this until I'm not given up on this because they have been very concerned. I've heard from them. I've heard from them today. And I absolutely must know that you're going to support the flooding issues as you develop this project. Because I will not be a happy camper if you don't want me to be unhappy. I would like to build on that. This will come down to the two developments, of course. Both are well needed.

[3:23:19] In the tie-breaker scenario, we collectively, I can tell you now where it's going. So that concern on Air Street will probably go away. I can't speak for the developer, but these are about $35,000 or $40,000. From this point forward, we have to get together to see if we even want to go forward with our deal. Because to throw away $40,000, we're probably not going to, I'll be honest. And I can't speak for Adrian. I'm just collectively from a gather spin here and from the commission for four years, you know. Thank you. We will close the comment on this item at this point. We need to go to item H, which is public hearing of first reading of an ordinance amending chapter three, animal control section, three point. It isn't, but it's where we're going. 3.02 and 3.01. 3.05. 001 of the code of ordinances to verify the city takes ownership of animals pursuant to state law. Morgan she's on. She has to leave to another meeting and has to go so they ask for me to move it forward. So I didn't just take, you know, Oh sure. Yeah. Yeah. Tommy, we're going to H. That's where we're going. That's a good H. Morgan, what's before you today is an opportunity to bring our ordinances in line with some recent case law. In 2016, the Texas Supreme Court stated that local jurisdictions need to clearly define when ownership is divested of animals along the process through a lost and found and then ultimate rescue opportunity. So this clarifies who owns the pets at certain times. So, for example, we recognize a stray hold as three business days after the day an animal arrives. We also recommend recognize an owned animal on a hold of 10 days from day of arrival and we recognize livestock to be on a 14 day hold, meaning that the animals cannot be released from the shelter until that

[3:25:23] time has been satisfied. So, what this ordinance before you does is, one, it clarifies that upon the end of these hold periods, the city becomes the owner of the animals in residence. After the hold period, those individuals that potentially are divested of their ownership. And upon adoption to a citizen or upon release to a rescue organization, at that time the city's divested of their ownership. So it's very clear that when an animal is adopted or released to a rescue organization, that at that time the animal is now owned by that individual. So it is that simple, just clarifying that those two movements mean that ownership is changing place at that time. Does that make our local ordinance, if you will, comply with the state? Is the recent case law, yes ma'am. Okay. Do somebody have questions or comments for Morgan? I'm just waiting to ask Morgan. When you said three days for the straight and 10 days for the owned and 14 for the livestock, that's what we have currently. That's what we currently recognize. So if an animal comes in and we don't know where it came from, We hold it for three business days after it's day of arrival, so it's not calendar days, right? If an animal's owned, meaning it has tags, it has a microchip, we're attempting to make contact with the owner, we hold it for 10 calendar days at that time. But before releasing the product. The dog just comes in with a color and it doesn't have a name or anything, it's not chipped or anything. The owner will lose that dog or cat in three days. After three business days. Which is why the council took the initiative to make microchip mandatory inside city rights. One of the many written people. And we notify the public that we have this animal and ownership, how? We process the animals within 24 hours of arrival, which means that they are viewable on our website and their picture is uploaded at that time. Also, Contra Valley Pause runs a local lost and found website and each of my staff members gets an email when an individual has lost a pet.

[3:27:23] So we're all keeping eyes on the new arrivals in the event that they are owned. Okay, still on a stray animal, it says three days, but that first 24 hours, no one even knows it's there. Well, that's why we do a three business days after the day of arrival. After the day of arrival. If it came in on a Saturday, we would release it that Wednesday or Thursday, whatever that three business days is after. There, yeah? Yes. Morgan, what do you do if you find the animal is chipped in accordance with the law? You make every attempt to, a reasonable attempt to contact the owner. So we will call the microchip company. We will get the contact information for the owner. Most microchip companies also ask for an emergency contact. It's not unusual that those phone numbers are dead. They no longer work. They don't go to a person. A voicemail's not set up any number of things. And so that's why the 10-day own hold is really valuable because we scan for microchip in the field and again upon arrival of the facility. So we know an animal's microchip very quickly. But we'll still honor the 10-day hold in case there are some issues, I'm getting contact with that owner. Any further questions for Morgan? If not, may I please have a motion? It will prove it's presented. All in favor? I have. Motion passes. Thank you. Now we will go back to, I know that we have, do we have people, I know we have people in the audience for item G, We have people in the audience for item E or F. There is for E. All right. Then we'll do E and then we'll do G, so that the people who've been waiting here all morning can finally get an audience. Did you read the item E already?

[3:29:25] It's been a long morning handed man. OK, item E would be considered an appeal to planning commissions January 22, 2018 approval of a conditional use amendment to eliminate condition of approval number three which restricted the hours of operation for alcoholic beverage sales for on-premise consumption of a 1.46 acre property located at 2402-2428, Van de Venter Avenue. And John, you're on after I've read item E. Thank you. John James, Director Planning and Development Services. This is an amendment to conditional use. As you mentioned, it's a small shopping center. Johnson and Van de at or Avenue Inn is right to the north there. This site was basically approved for the sale of alcohol. That's the purpose of the original conditional use. When the conditional use was granted by the Planning Commission, it limited the hours of the bar until midnight. The applicant sought to come back to amend the PD to extend those hours until 2 a.m. That went back to the Planning Commission. they approved that modification, that amendment to the conditional use, basically removing that condition. We did send out our notifications. We did receive one in opposition. That's the apartment complex that's just across the street from the proposed bar location. F does recommend approval of that amendment. As I mentioned, the Planning Commission also recommended approval. That would be a happy to answer any questions. Did you go back to the previous slide before you asked John questions I'd like to point out something yes when this item came on to the agenda we did some research on the alcoholic beverages code and we are preempted from changing the hours for this one establishment unless we go back and we live in our hours for the whole city so this is going to in my opinion not be a

[3:31:27] valid decision if you don't approve the amendment because we can't pre we're preempted by the beverages so legitimately there's no reason to have a discussion here because we need to support it. We don't have an option not to support it but do we need a formal vote to support it in order to clarify all legal issues with the council. Yes I think it's a cleaner process if you go ahead and vote. Move to approve as presented. Second. All in favor. I think we do you technically have to open the public hearing. Oh. Yes. Very important. I will get focused again. Thank you. Yeah. I might need food. Okay. So, with that said, I'm going to say we didn't take a vote, and I'm going to say that, in fact, it's a very nice one. Get your vote. Okay. public comment. There was no public comment. We need to amend the motion it needs to be to deny the appeal and approve the amendment. I make the motion to deny the appeal and approve the amendment. Thank you, Harry. Okay. Now, with the amendment, the motion, the second, and public comment will take a vote. All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Let's move on to item G. Consider an appeal by the Planning Director of the Planning Commission's January 22nd 2018 approval of four variances associated with the Bridal Wood Estate section 2 final plot. One variance from section 10.11 1.C.4 to allow 2-core surface in lieu of the required hot mix asphalt service, 2 variants

[3:33:29] from section 10.3, I guess, point A.2 to allow minimum payment with the 26 feet in lieu of the required 30 feet of Bridalwood Court, a proposed rule local street, 3 variants from Section 9.3.8.5.5.3 to allow no curbing and looser required header curbs and four variants from Section 9.3.3.3.2 to allow a dead end street greater than 750 feet in length. John? I guess I need, it's a separate presentation so I guess I need to be switched to that. Again, John James, Director of Planning and Development Services. This is Brattle with Estates Section 2. You can see the layout there. Here's the final plat that has been approved of Section 1. And then here's both together. So you can see the yellow is the Section 1 that was approved. This is Fairview Road and Fairview School Road. And so the proposal is for a cul-de-sac serving about 20 lots. That would be the Phase 2 of this development. As you'll see, they're requesting the four different variances to allow the development to proceed as proposed. I wanted to take just a minute to talk about a lot of the discussion at the Planning Commission revolved around kind of the philosophical why we do, why we have these rules that we do. And so I wanted to take a minute just to mention that. This area that we're talking about is within the city's annexation plan. In 2009, it was identified as an area that should be looked at for annexation between five and 20 years. So we're well within that, and so probably if we're following those guidelines, we would be looking at annexing this property within the next 10 years.

[3:35:31] It is, you can see the entire ETJ, and I'll talk a little bit more about what the ETJ is, but this particular property, the Broadlwood subdivision is surrounded on two sides by the city limits. I know in some cases we've had developments way out, three miles out in the ETJ, and some of the discussion was whether or not those should be required to meet full city standards, but this one is literally adjacent to the city limits. Is the black line the city limits? Yes, the black line is the city limits. These are the different colored areas, the blue or the intermediate areas for annexation. I think the purplish color is the next farther out, but still within the city's annexation plan for the near term. So the ETJ is that area. It is outside the city limits, but it's where the state authorizes cities to have some regulatory control over development. For San Angelo, that's three and a half miles out. It varies in state law based on the size of the city. I will note that once we officially reach hundred thousand population our ETJ will extend out to five miles. The whole philosophical reason for the ETJ is cities grow and expand and we need to have areas we can grow into and so that's the logic behind the state law that allows us to have some regulation within that area to give us room to grow into the future. So I wanted to just briefly go through the historic growth of the city. This is what the city looked like in 1949 for the next 20 years we didn't annex a whole lot but then the subsequent 30 years we really took in a lot of land into the city limits another 20 years took in quite a bit more and then 2017 now the last 10 years you can see the the few red areas we've annexed little bits here and there but again we we've continued to grow and expand from you know the original city, I shouldn't say the original city limits, our records go back

[3:37:33] to the 1940s and so the original city limits was even smaller but we've continued to grow geographically to accommodate growth and development of the city. The ETJ is one of the tools that helps us do that. Many cities have made the mistake of allowing too much development to happen outside the city limits that effectively boxes in our ability to continue to grow so I just wanted to point out the second bullet here. Our ETJ regulations are not intended to be anti-development, anti-growth. They're actually intended to be pro-growth to ensure that as the city continues to grow outward, we've got sufficient land that hasn't already been eaten up by substandard non-city development. One of those tools that I mentioned that we have per state law and the ETJ is the ability to regulate subdivisions. And again, the idea is we have set that ETJ development meets full city standards. In that way, as we grow and expand and annex those areas, we're not taking in substandard development, but they've already been built to our full city standards. There are different approaches different cities take in how we do development in ETJ. Some cities apply lesser standards with the philosophy of its rural, its outside of the limits. Let's make them build to a lesser standard. Some cities go the other direction and in order to have sufficient land for the city to grow actively discourage development in ETJ so that the city has plenty of room. We've chosen to kind of sit in the middle and say we're not going to make it easier to develop an ETJ but we're not going to make it harder we're just going to make the level playing field that if you're an ETJ or the city you meet the same standards. And what the applicant And in this case is requesting to do is to not have to abide by those city standards but develop to a lesser standard.

[3:39:33] And so what they've requested for you with this plat is a variance to those four different standards. The city ordinances do allow a variance process, that's what you're hearing today, but it does say that the variance shall not have the effect of nullifying the intent and purpose of these regulations. I'm not going to read through all of these, but the ordinance does say you must make findings that the variances are necessary, not detrimental to public health and safety, are unique to the property, not generally applicable to other property. I would argue that what the applicant is asking is to not have to do it because it doesn't make sense versus they have something unique about their property. It also has to be based on the physical surroundings or topographic conditions or a particular hardship. So again, the purpose of a variance is to address a unique hardship for that individual property. It's not intended to second guess the ordinance that have already been adopted. If you all think our street standards, our utility standards, our drainage standards, if you think any of those are incorrect, we can bring you back ordinances to change those. I guess it troubles me a little bit that it seems like every other planning commission, we have variances that are being requested that aren't actually challenging a hardship on their particular property. They're basically coming forward and trying to say, we don't agree with these rules. If that's the case, we can change those rules. In my opinion, disagreeing with the rules is not a sufficient justification for a variance. So now to those variances individually. The first one is to allow a two-course surface instead of the required hot mix. I'm not even gonna try to get into the details of that if you have questions, I know our engineers are here and can address the difference between a two course and a hot mix, but basically the hot mix is a higher standard of quality of road construction. Second variance is to allow 26 foot wide street

[3:41:35] instead of 30 feet wide. Again, we have a standard. In fact, in the city limits, this is one of those cases we have made some accommodation and urban street has to be either 36 or 40 feet wide. We have a rural standard that can be down to 30 feet wide. Now that doesn't matter ETJ or city, if you do a rural development in the city limits, you can still do the 30 foot road. So that's not a distinction between city and ETJ. But in this case, again, they're asking to go below that minimum standard of 30 feet to only construct 26 feet. The third variance has to do with curbing. This is the typical standup curb that you see on most city streets. in the ETJ, or I should say in rural developments, we often allow this header curve, or sometimes called a ribbon curve. It's basically a flat concrete, not the raised concrete. That helps protect the pavement edge. It contains the asphalt in the street. But again, in this case, well, let me say, our engineers have already authorized the header curve, or the header curve instead of the standup curve. But what the applicant is asking for not to have to do any curbing on the street. And then finally the fourth variance our ordinance requires a cul-de-sac be no longer than 750 feet. That's both in the fire code and in the subdivision ordinance. This street is close to twice that length at 1400 feet in length. And so I don't want to belabor this but a lot of the concern and questions that the Planning Commission had to do with cul-de-sac lengths and why we have those rules in place. Again, I think your job here today isn't to question those rules, but I want to give some background of why they're there. There are a number of issues my cities limit cul-de-sac from emergency responses, just one of those, but also traffic and street connectivity as well as maintenance costs. The fire code does say that 750 feet is the limit, but the fire marshal can approve something

[3:43:39] other longer with special approval. You'll see in this case that that's what's happened, at least as it relates to the fire code, the fire marshal has said, our preference is 750 feet, but if you do these things, X, Y, and Z, we're okay with you going longer. Institute of Transportation Engineers also has a limit, a recommendation of 1,000 feet, but our city ordinance is 750 feet. Looked at a study of the National Association City Transportation officials, according to their study, 83% of cities limit cul-de-sacs to 600 feet or less. In fact, quite a few of those cities prohibit cul-de-sacs altogether for a number of reasons. Most streets provide two benefits. One is access to the adjacent property and one is through traffic for just the general community. cul-de-sacs are different in that they only provide that direct adjacent access to the properties and so in essence provide no benefit to the general public and That's again one of the reasons we either limit or like I said in some cities they they very much restrict cul-de-sacs Some of the arguments that the Developer has made or that their agent is made is that the county can't maintain these stand these roads if they build them to city standard And again, we've adopted a standard that applies within this area. We have an agreement with the county that says in the ETJ, the county rules don't apply, but it's the city rules that apply. Again, if we want to change those rules, we can. If we want to amend those agreements with the county, we can, but we think we have very good reasons for requiring the city standard streets and ETJ rather than the county. And of course, if that's an issue for a particular developer, they can always seek to come into of the city where we will take over maintenance of those roads if the county can't maintain those. Again, this is just a repeat of a slide,

[3:45:40] so I didn't have to go all the way back, but you do have some things you need to think about. For granting a variance, you have to make findings that there is a hardship in this particular property. Again, this is in your staff report, so I'm not gonna read each of these. One thing I will point out, however, is one of the criteria is that there be a hardship that's not self-created. We think that part of the reason there is the issue with the 750-foot cul-de-sac is the way the first phase of this development was platted. Had they platted it differently on the first phase, they could have accommodated all of the city's rules and regulations. They chose not to do that, thereby creating an issue for themselves. But there are ways that they can fix that. I'm going to skip over that for a second, but then we came up with a couple of options and I'm sure the developers engineer could maybe come up with some different ones. One option, at least as the planning commission, at the time of the planning commission, there was one lot here at the end of their development in phase one that had not sold. They could rearrange their street here and punch it out to Fairview School Road, making that no longer a cul-de-sac, but a through street. Another option is this street here could be stubbed out for future development so that when this property develops, they could extend that same street. By definition, that means this would not be the cul-de-sac, but only this would be the cul-de-sac, thereby meeting the city standard. And that's probably the easiest one to accommodate. It really doesn't take much change at all to their development layout. So the staff recommendation that comes to you is the denial of all four variances. Although this does come as an appeal the planning commission by four three vote did approve those variances Think yeah, that's just the picture in case you have questions, but with that I'd be happy to answer any questions

[3:47:42] Lily do you have a question? Yes, ma'am John when you were going through and you were talking about the curbing that the developer does not want to do curbing and the city limits or the E. T. J. That was the first thing before the curbing something else. Oh, the asphalt construction, the width and the curbing. Right. So as I understood you to say that those are city requirements, city ordinance requirements right now, if you're within the city limits. It's in the city limits or the E. T. J. Probably annexing this property into the city limit. It is within the plan. It's within the adopted annexation plan, yes. So if we don't meet the standards or if the developer does not meet the standards now. But we annex it in and at some point we have to put curbing and redo the. Will that expense fall on all of the citizens of San Angelo? our tax dollars? Generally, yes, those expenses would fall to the taxpayer. I hesitate to even say this, but in some cities they will tack on, they'll make the improvement and bill it to the surrounding property owners. We have not historically done something like that, and I can't see us supporting that sort of method, but that would be an option down the road. Okay, so I guess at some point we're going to hear from the developer on what the hardship is because I would struggle to vote to grant any of you know to I'm not sure which way to put it but I don't want to approve something that potentially in the future is going to cost other taxpayers money when the developer should take care of it when they develop the property because we already see that we

[3:49:46] have things that we have to do in San Angelo because the developer didn't do what they should have done with drainage. And so, you know, what is that once bitten, twice shy? I just, you know, would hesitate. So, I guess as we go on, we'll hear what the hardship is from the developer, because this is just not something that I could support, you know. Yes, and they are here to speak. Do you want, can the Randy, are you still in the back of the room? Or the, okay, come on up. Good morning, the council heard hooker with SKG engineering should say good evening, possibly. I want to start off by saying that we're going to be doing a fine development here. Very, a very nice upscaled development. Mr. Randy Bell, the developer has been in town for many years, has completed a lot of very nice developments. He is going to be here for many, many more years. We don't deal with fly-by-night developers, and he definitely isn't one of those. I would like to hand out, I didn't have time to put together a slide. A lot of what we're talking about here is the time frame involved between the possible city annexation when the city can actually maintain a city spec road within subdivision and the county being able to maintain a road. road. And that's why we're proposing the two course surface treatment. We can't go to a 30 foot wide road if that would make you feel better. Back in 2010, when the county upgraded

[3:51:48] their subdivision regulations, they went to a 30 foot wide road. And what they found was that it was too wide, that people were actually parking on the side of the road, which was effectively reducing the travel way with anyway, the county also realized that they didn't want to have to maintain a 30 foot wide road, which was wider than they deemed was necessary for effective evanes of traffic. So now all the roads we've been building for the county have been 24 foot wide. If this was further out in the county, we would, outside the E.T.J., the county would be having is filled a 24-foot wide road. What I've passed out is actually another kind of excerpt of the 2009 annexation plan and I didn't keep one for me. You can have this one and Daniel. I can look on with Lane. So on the first let me say there's a state law that requires all cities to have an annexation plan. There is no law that requires them to implement that plan. That being said, this 2009 plan, no one in the Planning Department or the Planning Administration was here when this plan was developed. So I wouldn't expect them to answer to the methodology used to develop this plan. I've got a couple of areas highlighted. And the area in blue with the air on it is actually the area of our subdivision. And as you can see over in the legend, it's in the intermediate five to 20 year timeframe from the 2009 plan. Another area highlighted is on paint rock road.

[3:53:48] This is Laura Drive, Dakota Drive, Tyler Terrace on the south side of the road. got Baker Drive Center Street on the north side of the road. I call it the Tyler Terrace area and as you can see that's in the immediate plan. You're out of five years so I would ask Mr. James if annexation proceedings have been started on that area. Is that there in the red block box area in the red box Yes. No annexations have not moved forward in that area. And why I'm pointing this out is once again the time frame for the maintenance of the roadway we're looking at building. We have an area here on this plan that shows it to be in the immediate time frame zero to five years from 2009 that annexation hadn't even started on. I was kind of hoping it had because I would also answer some other questions about the problems that we could very well have in annexing this area and our area. Now they have two things in common. One, they both join the city limits and two, they are in the service area of Miller's View-Duel Water Corporation. That's huge. I thought maybe that's why the annexation for the Tyler Terrace part hadn't happened yet because of the inherent problems with annexing areas within water supply corporations. We don't know that for sure. I've done some research on annexing those areas and had a short conversation with John this morning. It can be done. It's very problematic. The cost to the city to possibly have to provide water service protection which is an equitable service that is required during the

[3:55:52] annexation process could be very costly to the city. I mean we're talking about the water system that they have doesn't sustain firefighting fire flow. The mains aren't big enough you can't put fire hydrants on it. I don't know if that's one of the reasons that this immediate annexation area hadn't been annexed once again we're getting back to the time frame that streets have a maintenance schedule that needs to be upheld to somewhere between eight and ten years you need to go in for major street maintenance the difference between actually being annexed within say eleven years like we'd be looking at on our immediate time frame if you take 20 year time frame and subtract the nine years since the O9 plan was adopted and the time frame you get when you add the immediate area that hasn't been annexed gets us out to a 20 plus year time frame from the time we get this subdivision built and the county can't maintain they don't have the equipment to maintain hop mix roads. That's why we're asking for a two core surface treatment road. thing with the curving, it's really part of a hot mix roadway and it's not something the county has the equipment to maintain it. It kind of gets in the way of maintaining a two-course surface treatment type road. I would be happy to answer any questions on this part before we go into the actual various requests. Mary, did you have a comment or question at this point? I guess my question was, and you may have already said something, Herb, but I missed it if you did, and it's my concern about safety in a dead-end street. Both the Wall Fire Department and the San Angelo Fire Department have taken a look at this, and are concerned that the length of that particular street that dead-ends.

[3:58:00] Certainly, if you've got a way to get in and get out of that, the safety of these residents have got to be paramount even if they're not in the city limits. I agree with that. And we actually met with the San Angelo Fire Chief, Rose Coleman, had the Wall Volunteer Fire Department, who are the first responders for this location, brought, born, met with them to develop this plan that they could agree with that actually had the emergency vehicle access exit road going off to the side. Now the international fire code says any cul-de-sac over 750 foot length has to require special approval. And that's what we have gotten working with Wahlberg VFD Chief Rod Born and San Angel Fire Chief Ross Coleman. We've also gone further as far as we're going to go ahead and pave this entire cul-de-sac. It's kind of a cul-de-sac there at the 90-degree turn. We're going to put a ground storage tank centrally located within subdivision and we've already worked with the Wahl VFD on the configuration, all the fittings and everything to get them adequate water for their fire protection activities and hopefully not need it, but any activities that might have in this area. How do you race that? May I say something? Yes. I mean, first, Ross is our Fire Marshal, not our Fire Chief, but second, this happened at the Planning Commission level when they were looking at this, and there's no mechanism we can find in the legal department that would actually have teeth to it that would require the improvements he's talking about right now and we can make great plans and he can tell us what he's going to do but if they don't actually do it there's nothing we can do about that so in other words what he's presenting today as a plan we can't take about that says you're only this is only being approved if you do the following

[4:00:02] thing there's nothing that we could find that would allow us to adopt his plan and have him stick to it actually one of the amendments to the condition of approval can be as approved by the San Angel Fire Marshall. That's primarily talking about the emergency vehicle access road and not the ground storage. The ground storage is covered under a different condition of approval that says all residences will be sprinkled or you will provide a centralized ground storage location. So are the individual homes sprinkled? No, that's an option to either do the centralized as fire storage or have all the information on fire. You were proposing the centralized fire water storage for fire. Right now, I'd like to say I'm sprinkling the houses myself. I'm a big proponent for that. But I think the centralized storage is probably the way it's going to go. The issue there is that the subdivision ordinance only gives us, because it's outside the city limits, it only gives us authority over certain things. So for example, if we were to say, we'll approve this, but only if you sprinkle the houses, we have no mechanism to make that happen. We don't review building permits out there. We have no way to go out and say, yes, you should sprinkle them, no, you didn't. I think that's the caution, is that there are some things they can promise to do. We may not necessarily have the teeth to enforce the thing. We've got to not apply then to all four issues that are here for, if you can't put teeth to that, to that can you put teeth to these other four items that were absolutely we review the construction of the street we review the plans for the length of the street so all the four variances are street construction standards that we absolutely have the authority under the ordinance to do it's those tangential things like the fire service types of things that are normally in the fire code much of which only applies within the city limits so the question is are

[4:02:02] Are you telling us that with, let's say, we say you can put that water tank in there, that the San Diego Fire Marshal and the Wall Fire Department have signed off on the plan that you're projecting today in terms of safety? They have agreed with the plan that we presented with the Emergency Vehicle Access Eastman and the Centralized Water Storage. The centralized water storage and the sprinkler house option as a condition of approval was actually put on there by the planning department. This is the first I've heard that they found out that they couldn't put those conditions on there. Once again, we're dealing with a very reputable developer. We've already made arrangements for the water storage tank out there and have contacted the wall of EFD to make sure it's going to work for them. There's no reason to think that's not going to happen. If we can't guarantee it, I'm sorry. If you can think some way that we can guarantee that, we'd be happy to do that. And Ross Coleman's in the back. Could we have him come to the microphone? Absolutely. Thank you. Ross Coleman, Fire Marshal. What we gave him was basic to the specifications that he provided with concern over the dead end. It's greater than 750, so I believe it's 1,400 something. So based on that, we told him that on our side of the fence, as far as the fire safety goes, we would only be comfortable if he extended the dead end portion out to the roadway over here to the right. He widened up that first, pulled the sack a little bit, and then he did the fire protection. We pushed the sprinkler issue first, and I was in that

[4:04:04] with the builder. And then we got the wall fire chief involved, since he's going to be the one fighting the fire there to find out what his needs were. And he said that based on the design, he could live with a water tank, a stationary water tank. As per the plan side, I can't speak to that or the construction standards or the carving. But just for the issues of fire protection, that was kind of like, that's about the least that we can do. So what you're saying is, is that between what you felt was necessary. The wall people who will be fighting the fires, the changes that are necessary to make it safe have been addressed in a plan. Yes. Not in reality but in a plan. And you're saying that the tank has already been purchased? No, it hasn't actually been purchased. I think it's been priced out and we figured out where to put it. We haven't actually bought it yet. So the plans are to do it, so we don't have a grand concern about You not doing it or the developer not doing it. That is correct I think there's a very reputable developer that that we can depend on and like I said it it was a condition of the plant approval previously and It's apparently been what withdrawn now We're planning on doing that anyway My preference would really be that if we extended that cul-de-sac out to the right, or figure a way that you've got more than one entrance into that particular neighborhood, because what we've seen over the years is we build a dead-end street and then we've got problems either from a safety or from drainage. I really, really have trouble with this 1,400 foot road that dead-ends, I'm sorry, but That's my feeling on it. The 750 foot maximum length of a dead-end street is in the subdivision ordinance and I think

[4:06:11] John had some other figures that like maximum 800 foot length with 20 houses on it. One of the things is that we've got quite a length of roadway before we actually get to where the houses are. So the maximum 800 foot roadway length on some of their cities with 20 houses on it is probably looking at having houses on the roadway all the way. We've almost got like a shared common drive just to get into the subdivision. I don't know if any of you live in a cul-de-sac or no people that live in cul-de-sac. A lot of people live in cul-de-sac because they aren't cul-de-sac. because of the inherent feeling of safety by not having through traffic, you know, the kids complain the street, you're not going to have high-speed cars coming by to taking a shortcut to get to another road or something like that. I'd see the benefits. I see why people would like to live in a cul-de-sac. From the perspective of the people living there, I don't think that driving another five over 10 seconds to get to their house based on length of the cul-de-cica is really gonna be a determining factor. Same thing with the pizza guy or UPS or whatever. The length, the maximum length that's in the subdivision ordinance is 750 feet. For all I can tell, it's only there because of the international fire code. And their maximum length is 750 feet. It says over 750 feet, special, approved, or required. And that's why we reached out to Fire Marshal Coleman and Chief Born of the wall BFD, to find out what we could do to appease them, to get them satisfied that we're not causing a life safety issue out here. Yes, Billy. Herb, what's the issue? I have a couple of questions.

[4:08:11] What's the issue with putting curbing? Essentially the, and I see it as two variances, the roadway variances are broken down in three different ones. the paving surface paving with and the curbing, the other variants being the length of the cul-de-sac. The roadway issues are strictly maintenance issues. We're looking at that roads really need to have major maintenance about every eight years. The city is saying that the annexation plan from 2009 shows that this is intermediate area annexation time frame, five to 20 years from 2009, um, nine years, so that would put us maybe 11 years out to actually be annexed on that area. Um, what we're saying is that the annexation plan hadn't been proven up because we've got an area on there that says zero to five years immediate annexation and it hadn't even been started. I'm saying that is that if we, I mean, we're Bill McCounty Roadway, it's outside the corporate limits. It's a county road. The question is, how long is it going to be a county road when and if will it be a city road? The problems with the annexation, dealing with water supply corporation are substantial and could be very costly. Some of the things I was reading said that if it's, if military people do a water supply corporation is actually a government corporation, a national corporation. There could very well be anti encroachment provisions in there that would completely prohibit annexation. We don't know. We haven't had the other area that's on the zero to five-year time frame. Haven't had any work done on that, so we don't know what we're getting into. But those two areas that are marked on the annexation plan excerpt I gave you are essentially identical.

[4:10:12] They are adjoining the city limit, and they're in Miller's View Deal Water Corporation. So in answer to your question, the header curve is typically something you do in conjunction with a hot mix pavement. Hot mix pavement is, it's asphaltic emulsion type mix that you put in there and you pack down. So you've got the concrete curve on the edge and you pack it in until it hits the top of the concrete curve. The two core surface treatment is where you actually spread asphalt, then put the rocks down that stick to it, you come back in with another layer of asphalt, another layer of rocks, and so you don't really need that edge. And if you come back and do the maintenance on that roadway with another layer of asphalt, layer of rock, the curving just gets in the way in it, and it ceases to function, it doesn't actually hold an edge because it doesn't have to, because it's not hot mix. So if we were to insist on the asphalt hot mix, I guess the two layer construction, and you said the county cannot maintain. They don't have the equipment to maintain it, so what would happen? Who would maintain it? That's just it. We're looking at a situation where, especially with the annexation, time frame considerations, that we can build you a very, very nice road right now that the county is going to be maintaining until this property may be annexed. And so every eight years or so, the county is going to come in and do their maintenance on the roadway as opposed to that, if we go in with the city spec road, the hot mix road, The county's not going to maintain it. So somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 years down the road, 24 years down the road, which is very well within the realm

[4:12:14] of time frame that we're looking at. If annexation can happen, the road's going to go away. If you wait too long to start your initial maintenance of the roadway, you end up with road cracks, then moisture gets down in the base, and the road starts failing. The base course and the subgrade of the road or actually the structural component of the road that gives it its load carrying capacity. The surface really just sheds water to make sure that the other part doesn't get wet. While I'm on that subject, the road we're proposing is actually to a higher standard as far as to subgrade and base construction goes, then an urban roadway that we would build in the city. The, the base course itself is quite a bit thicker and that follows the city standards for rural roadway construction and this is kind of a cooperative effort that we formed with the county when we widen Fairview Road and Fairview School Road talking with Shane In Kelton, he agreed that we could go in and use city subgrade and base specifications and then county two-course surfacing to widen the roadways. That way the county can maintain the roadways, but yet we still have the structural component that we get from the city specifications for the base and subgrade. I think Daniel wanted to make a comment real quick. Let me make this comment and I'll make myself very clear. I think that from a business perspective, you always look at ways to reduce your cost. And I think this is a cost-saving measure on your end. I do have a lens that I like to call up. And I do want to question what you're saying, as far as a maintenance part of it, does the county have the ability to maintain? Do they have the equipment? You know, what is it required in order for them

[4:14:14] to maintain a hot mix asphalt road when cracks do appear? You know, what measure do they currently use? So I'd like to call Lance up here to kind of give us some clarification on that, please. Lance Overstreet representing engineering services. I would actually like to pass this on to the council to take a look at. It is a little heavy. This is a core of the street. And before you do that, let me just point out one couple of things here. The core of the city street here is basically showing that we have a hot mix asphalt mix on the very bottom of this. then we actually have seal coat which you guys know that I've presented before is a maintenance surfacing treatment and what you have to realize is that the seal coat that the city puts on to maintain our surface is the exact same thing as what is being proposed as a two-course. It is two layers of seal coat, all right? And so you can actually see kind of soaked into this sample in the very top of the dark little layers that is the seal coat that's actually absorbing down into the asphalt. So what is being proposed is not this nice thick robust section that is good for attorney movements and things like that. It is probably about the top quarter to maybe at the very most a half of an inch of asphalt and rock that's being proposed for this roadway. So I'll let you guys take a look at that. Lance is very clearly Lance as far as when he says asphalt. Yes, we can call that asphalt, but it's really an emotion. It's really an an old base is placed on the street, and then you put the rock chip on it, right? It's exactly that. They come through, they spray at the top with the asphalt emulsion. They put the rock on, they spray it again. And so really, what you have to realize is that that particular standard for county roads is actually designed for a vehicle that's gonna go down a road, and it's a straight type roadway. It's not really designed for turning movements

[4:16:15] where you actually end up having pushing, you have shoving. It's not designed for 20 or 30 houses, they're going to be in a small stretch where every time someone comes out of their driveway, they're going to be having turning movements. Even in that cul-de-sac area with the way this is designed with those two turns right there, I would bet that within a matter of a few months that a normal two-course road is going to start failing in this area here and this area here just because of the turning movements. Okay, so what we have is we have something that's not designed for turning movements and I can attest to it because I've seen it put down on a parking lot where a big rig parked and then the first time a big rig parked and decided to make a tight turn it actually tore up the two the two cores so this is not the whole reason that the city has the standard we do is to be able to handle those kind of turning movements and that kind of loading that goes on as far as the the maintenance portion of it I've talked to Shane Kelton and he can speak counted as well. The maintenance vehicle that deals with potholes for this city that does it on a regular basis is a flat bag truck to guys with a shovel and a tamper. That is the maintenance operation for the city. The maintenance operation for the county is a flat bag truck with a couple of shovels and guys with a tamper. So any kind of hot pot hole maintenance whether it's the county or the city it's the same maintenance operation. To speak into the fact of of what we do for seal coating to maintain the life of the street. The county does not historically go through and have the same maintenance program we do. They are more reactive when there's a problem, they come out and do that, but their new standard I believe is that whatever roadway they accept, that person has to actually donate maintenance cost for a 10-year cycle in order for them to be able to accept it. Well, if a hot mix asphalt road is going to have to have seal code in eight years, that

[4:18:15] becomes a part of that maintenance operation that would be donated to the county to see to it that it is maintained properly to sustain that life. So regardless of how, what type of roadway that donation from the developer to get that road accepted is going to be taken in in that cost. And so what if the county doesn't do any maintenance? Say they received the funds and they don't do any maintenance. Well, over the long term, that road may begin to show some problems with wear and falling apart. It's going to follow the exact same suit of every other county road. They're going to come over. They're going to dump stuff in the pothole. They're going to roll it, tamp it. They're going to go on. And so as far as the surface, the benefit, I think, is actually probably going to cost the county less on a maintenance side, having a hot mixed road there, because they're not going to have to continually be having people go out on a regular basis to deal with potholes and these turning movements and things like that. and especially when you have 20 homes that are gonna be entering into another area up here where there's attorney movement for every vehicle coming in and out of that subdivision. What's the difference in the cost of the two surfaces? Probably 35% more for the hot mix road. The curve being probably adds another 20 to 25% on top of that. I would like to disagree with Lance on the destructive force from the turning on the roadway on the hop mix as compared to the two course. We've seen a lot of trouble with hop mix. We're in San Angelo, he gets up to 110, 115 degrees and a hop mix tends to get very plastic at the higher temperatures. Yes, we have trouble with two course. When people are turning on it, we have as much more trouble with hop mix during the summer months here with heavy-weighted vehicles compressing it, grooving it, and also turning it

[4:20:16] will pop up the hop mix in Lawrence Jones also. So I'd just like to disagree with that part. If I could add one thing to speak to some of the comments that were made about annexation. While I was not involved with this annexation plan that currently exists, I was involved with planning when they did an annexation years back when I was in the planning department. And the area that we referenced or that Herb referenced as far as the Tyler Terrace area, that was not an expect then. Several areas were that you saw show up. And as I recall, the reason it was not annexed primarily was due to the expense that it was going to keep. The roads there, as I recall, are not built to city standards. They don't have curbs, those kind of things. So the city was going to have to bring those up to city standard if that was annexed. There were several areas that were annexed that are in the Miller view water district. And so Tyler Terrace falls in that I believe as well. And that was not the reason for the non-exation at that time. I'd like to add to that that whenever who determines who serves particular customers with water is the Public Utility Commission through a process called getting a certificate of convenience and necessity, those agreements between two water service providers are worked out all the time and filed with the PUC. And my experiences, if the parties agree, the PUC accepts it. There's also ways you can contract around any water issues that by a rise is a part of annexation, which is probably like Rick said, that wouldn't even be a consideration on whether or not to annex a property. That wasn't, so it wasn't annexed for a reason, specifically. And we had several property owners who wanted city water, and unfortunately, as Herb said, it is a different water district, so we couldn't provide them with water service. But we did, as we annexed them, have to bring them up to city standards in those areas such as fire protection, police protection, streets. What I find concerning is the following that we have an ETJ area that a county is saying, we can accept this standard in that area,

[4:22:18] but that the city can't. And so I find there's great concern on my part that we have a city and the county determining or looking at the area and saying, I can accept it, but you can't. I mean, it just seems to me that we need some better definition about who has the ruling power, if you will, on the standards in this thing instead of making a variance that comes to us to address these issues, if the county can accept it, and it doesn't look like we're gonna get it annexed in for 20 years or more. How do we make this a simpler, easier process that someone who isn't this kind of a situation better understands without delay what they can do. Well, I guess I would answer that by saying we have a document that tells them what they can do. It's the subdivision ordinance. Many developers come in and do exactly what an ordinance says. It's only when they're requesting a variance from those standards. And we do have that agreement with the county. So the county has said they are OK in the ETJ with the city developing standards and applying those standards. and the county's okay with that. And if we wanna change that, we can get back with the county and amend those agreements, but I would argue that that question has been answered. And any change to that should be changes to that agreement and changes to our ordinance. I still fear that we're getting too far off into questioning the philosophy of our ordinances. What you're asked today to decide is, are they so different than everybody else, that the rules that everybody else plays by shouldn't apply to them? Also, the letter brought today, I'd point out, is from a county commissioner. This does not represent the entire county, that all the commissioners, it's just one commissioner. So it did not- That was his area. Right, it did not go before the county commission to get a ruling. Mayor, if I could.

[4:24:20] Yes. Earlier today on our agenda, you made a decision about some road work that you were paying for. And I would suggest that if we were able to repair Bell Street and hand it off for somebody else to maintain, we wouldn't have gone with concrete, we would have gone with asphalt, we would have gone with a lower standard, because that would have got us through to the time to hand it off. It would have been a financial benefit for us to go with that lower standard. This is a similar kind of situation where somebody's gonna build this road to a standard and hand it off for somebody else to maintain. We may be that party that has to maintain that in the future, and so we have some authority to determine what that financial impact might be. Lance. Lance Overstreet, again, I would like to also point out that as far as city maintenance goes, the newer Benedetti machine that we have that we are actually looking at doing reconstruction of roadways will not work on a two course roadway. It does have to be a hot mix roadway, And then also, too, the header curbing that's put in place is actually to help hold that end and those edges together so that way it doesn't deteriorate over time. And so it's not just necessarily the hot mix asphalt or the two-course that we're looking at. If the city is going to have to maintain it, there are some things that, and we do inherit it, there are some things that could be quite considerably more costly down the road if the city does have to take over a maintenance of this. What I think we might do here, if Council agrees, is to go item by item 1234 and make a decision on each of the variances as requested and take a vote or to have a motion on each of the variances. Oh, wait a minute. Randy, did you want to speak before I go into that? Yeah, I'm sorry.

[4:26:22] A fair review school, my name is Randy Bell. And on the Fairview Road and the Fairview School Road, We're required to widen those roads. We were required to widen those roads. And they were widened to city specifications. Fairview Road is a city street. It belongs, because inherently I see the street, you go all the way to the city, then you get the street. So we widen that. The oil we have to use and the compounds had to be to city specifications. It's not just any oil, it had to be a certain specification Well, there's many different kinds of oil to do hot mixes. So the city acts like they don't even know what a hot mix road is. Fact of the matter is, all the roads coming into this and leaving this area are hot mix roads. And Aubrey D. Cordova, I met him out on another issue out on this particular project. And he's the one that suggested that we stay with the hot mix roads so that he's able to maintain them and her brought up the 26-foot width, because the county gets a road that's wider than they want to. So meeting with their superintendent and Aubrey D. Cordova on this road, this road was their suggestion that they can maintain it for the extended period of time. Now, if you had exit day after tomorrow, you might want something different. But if you're out there for the next five, 10 years, a lot of these homes I build and lease, I own them. So when I own the house a year from now, a year and a half from now, and somebody gouges the road, something happens, who's gonna maintain it? The county is. Now maybe five years, 10 years, 15 years in front of my rental property, you will in fact maintain the road, but in the meantime, no. So what started this all down, and you mentioned, Daniel, that it was due to cost, 100% cost, that's all we had. No, that's not true. The fact of the matter is Aubrey D. Cordova and the road superintendent for the county met with me out there, and that's what they wanted to maintain. And the oil that goes into the hot mix is a city specified oil. So don't act like they've never saw it before.

[4:28:23] We've never seen this before. And hot mixing over asphalt is not a good application. You can do it, but it's not good. So that's why we headed down this road to begin with, because we are actually in the county. Thank you. No one's acting like no one's seen that hot and makes before we understand what you're asking for. It's very clear with the two course you're talking about. It's very clear. We know what we're talking about as well as far as our recommendation, so. If, when you're looking at voting on the variances, could you start with the maximum road link? Because the development will work. With that, the variance from the maximum road link that we've worked out with the City Fire Marshal and the Wall VFD. There's possibility we can get the development to work with some different road standards than what we proposed. It's y'all's wish. So you're asking that we first consider the variance on the 750 feet? Yes, please. Okay. So the first conversation we're going to have an emotion accordingly would be on item G4, which is the variance from section 9.3.C.2 to allow a dead end street greater than 750 feet in length. If that said, do I have a motion on this item for? Mayor, can I clarify the way the motion should be made? If you would. If you're approving the variance, then you're denying the appeal and approving the variance. If you're upholding the appeal, then you're rejecting the variance. So it would be a two step on each one of the motions. One would. And I can help through the process. One would say, I am making a motion. I'm not doing that, I'm just saying. This is what we have to say. I am presenting a motion that says I deny the variance.

[4:30:27] I'll probably appeal and deny the variance or deny the appeal and approve the variance. Those would be your two options on each one. I don't know if I can say it right. So I'm leaving it to somebody else. So let me see if I can attend, because I'd like to make a motion to deny this variance of a 750 dead end street and a pulled appeal. I'll second that. Okay, is there any public comment on that item? Other than what's already been offered? All right, so we'll take a vote. All in favor of Harry's motion, say aye. Aye, aye, aye. Is that five or six? No, I'm, no, I'm a no. Okay. So it's six. One. Right. Thank you. All right. The next item we will take for consideration is the variance from Section 10.2.C4 to allow two-course service in lieu that are required required hot mix asphalt. I think he's withdrawing all four based on that or? We'll need a vote procedurally. You could do all three at once or you could still take the other three street ones individually. I'd like to take him each individually Make a motion to Pull the appeal deny the variance on which item item or we on item one. Yes, sir. I'm c4 All in favor Opposed 1 6 1 item g2 Variance from section 10.3.8.2 to allow minimum pavement with the 26 feet in lieu of the required 30 feet for Bridalwood Corps to propose rural local

[4:32:29] street. I'd move where I pull the appeal and deny the variance. Any public comment? With that motion and second no public comment all in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed one and then number three variants from section nine point three point a point five a three to allow no curbing and looser required header curbs make a motion that we uphold the appeal and deny the variance is there a second is there any public comment with no public comment we will take a vote all in favor say aye. Opposed? Aye. Motion passes 6-1. Okay. Item G is complete. We have done item E. Do you, Mayor, I will say we have sandwiches upstairs. I know we've gone way over the time. So if you want to take a quick break to do that, just grab some. Let's keep going. We're going to keep going. So we will go to item F. Public hearing and first reading of an ordinance for Z18-01 a rezoning from the general commercial heavy commercial CGCH and single family residential RS1 zoning district to the neighborhood commercial CN zoning district on a 1.35 acre property located at 2819 North Chadburn Street. John. Thank you John James director planning and development services this is a rezoning as you mentioned to neighborhood commercial We see the location there on North Chadburn, almost to 29th. It is Neighborhood Center in the future land use plan. This rezoning is consistent with that. You can see it's partially zone CGCH and partially RS-1.

[4:34:32] This would make it all the same with the neighborhood commercial. This I'll add is in relation to tier's grant application. The currently adopted tier's policy does not allow a property with CGCH zoning to seek a tiers grant, and therefore, they have to seek a different zoning to a different classification. I'll also add that the tiers policy waives the fees for the rezoning. So the applicant in this case did not have to pay a fee for the rezoning. We did send out our notifications, did not receive any responses. Staff does recommend approval as did the planning commission. I'd be happy to answer any questions. You see? It's presented. Second. All in public comment, please. With no public comment, we will take a vote. All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Passes 7-0. Then we move on to item I, I believe. Public hearing and consideration of a resolution authorizing the adoption of the 2018-2023 Capital Improvement Plan for the City of St. Angelo. Good afternoon, Mayor and Council. I should be pretty quick going through this. This is the resolution that we already discussed, the CIP at our last meeting, and so this is just the resolution after having received all public comments and all of the information we needed is now compiled for your approval. To remind you what's in the capital improvement plan, the item must have a greater cost, a cost greater than $25,000, a useful life greater than three years, and take six or more months to complete. of 103 total projects in this year's plan, totaling $417 million in total project costs, including those that we've already incurred, and 115 future projects totaling $347 million. We did have our online survey. Survey is your well aware. We did receive both votes and text responses to that,

[4:36:32] and this year we had a 415% increase over last year for a total of 835 responses online. Of course, here's just a visual depiction for your information to see where those comments and votes came in. For quality of life projects, our top two are splash pad and the Unidad part playground. For transportation projects, our top projects were reconstruction on College Hills and North Chappern for public safety, came in top at the police department admin building and the the animal shelter improvements, and for water and wastewater improvements to the water treatment plants, and water main replacements for our top two. So again, this is just going through what we went through in the last meeting, but I'd be happy to answer any questions that I can before we vote on the resolution. Well, what I wanna make clear is that you're presenting all of the information that in fact was presented to us by the public. But so basically when we take a vote of approval, All we're doing is approving the fact that you've put together a plan that says this is what the public said. It doesn't mean that we, each individual person or the council as a whole are in support of these individual projects. And I think that's important to say because when it says we are improving the capital improvement plan, it sounds like we're proving every project in this bucket list of projects that might There might not be and a great priority relative to the future use of the taxpayers' dollars. Yes, ma'am. And I want to make sure we're clear on that. This is an approval of a project just because it's in this work plan. Yes, ma'am. That's correct. And it also does not provide for funding for the projects either. These projects are presented, as you said, ideas from the public, as well as from the City Council, as well as from directors, and so including them in the plan just allows us to be able to move forward on a project. a council decides that it is a priority in the future. Do I have comments or questions

[4:38:36] for Tina from anyone here on council? To approve the capital improvement plan as present. Do we have any public comment on the capital improvement plan as presented with no comment public comment we will take a vote all in favor say aye And then are we doing the update on sales tax? Yes ma'am. All right. Very quickly. So we were up 19.71% in February compared with February of last year. Those sales are reflective of December and Christmas sales tax revenues. Our collections for February were $263,000 over our 2018 budget for that month. And our total budget for revenue is almost $700,000 for the year. However, if we did project flat over the remainder of this fiscal year, we would end up somewhere around $600,000 in excess of our original budget. And then I just have your chart there. You can see retail and general services are up for the month of January. Again, that runs a month behind the information we're able to obtain. Thank you very much. Yeah. All right, thank you. comments from council. Let's keep bringing good news. All right. Ben, local shop local. We have local. We should wear this to be council meetings. With that being the final item, we will now move into executive session. We're not going to have executive session, so there's no closed session. And so we will move up to follow up and administrative issues, which then bring us to Item AB, which is considered proving the following board nominations, which is Civic Events Advisory Board. Steve Mahafie, SMD 5 to a second term ending October 31st, 2020.

[4:40:36] Do I have a motion? And two proof. I second. Do we have any public comment on this board nomination? If not, we'll take a vote. All in favor? Aye. No opposed. Steve Mahafee will be SMD, five civic events, advisory board member. Any announcements and consideration of future agenda items? With no consideration of future agenda items, do I have? Yes, sir. I did want to make a mention that we are having a special meeting next Monday or Monday the 26th. On Monday, February the 26th, the council and city employees We'll make a trip to the Ford ranch with that. We're to meet here at what time? 11.30. With that said, I have a second. All in favor. We are closed for 1.30.

Transcribed 2026-07-26 with faster-whisper (base.en) · source: youtube.com/watch?v=MX7VdJ7tApc