San Angelo City Council 10-21-14

[0:00:00] Good morning, and we welcome everyone to our meeting this morning. We will begin this morning with the word of prayer I'll ask Randall Webb my Yes, Randall Webb might come forward. Please and ladies in the word of prayer. Thank you. Let us pray eternal father ruler of all Keep this city under your care bless our community with honest industry truthful education and an honorable way of life life. Save us from violence, discord and confusion, from pride and arrogance and from every evil course of action. Open the windows of heaven and send rain on us to revive and renew the land. Graciously regard those who have been elected to positions of authority among us, that guided by your spirit, they may be high in purpose, wise in counsel, firm in good resolution and unwavering in duty, that we may be governed quietly and peaceably. Through Jesus Christ, your Son, our Lord, who lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit, one God, now and forever. Amen. Amen. Thank you, sir. Tristan Smith, an eighth grader at Trinity Lutheran, will now Come up here to help us with the flag. You ready, bud? I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation of God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Honor me, Texas flag. I pledge allegiance to the Texas one state under God, one indivisible. Do have a few proclamations today.

[0:02:06] The first one is proclamation is called stoptober smoking cessation awareness month. So if you would be patient with me and I will read this proclamation. Who is going to accept this? I'd ask you to come ahead and come forward. It says whereas every year in the United States over 392,000 people die from tobacco caused disease, making it the leading cause of preventable death. And another 50,000 people died from exposure to secondhand smoke. And the American Lung Association has selected October as Stoptober Smoking Cessation Awareness Month. And the City of San Angelo, working on Wellness Committee, has selected October as Stoptober Smoking Cessation Awareness Month and the City of San Angelo has made a commitment to Wellness. Now therefore, I'd to Wayne Morrison, Mayor of the City of San Angelo, on behalf of City Council do hereby proclaim the month of October two fourteen as stop tober smoking successful patient awareness month and encourage the community and the support and participation of all citizens learning more about smoking cessation programs during stop tober smoking cessation awareness my we're just grateful So today for the city councils and management's continued support of wellness programs, we're especially proud of this October program going on here in October. Any city employees who are looking for support to stop smoking, there is an excellent program going on right now. It's not too late to sign up. You would just check out on the extra net or email any one of us before you today are your wow champions, your peers, your colleagues at the city that are serving on this committee. I'm the chairman of the committee. We also have Jake from HR, Carolyn from Street and Bridge, and Mary and Janet from Community Hospital supporting us on our staff. And so we're very grateful for the opportunity to serve, and we encourage you all to continue

[0:04:07] to work on wellness. Let's take a big one. What do you want? I normally try to avoid words, but more than two syllables in it. The next proclamation is Red Ribbon Week. This will be accepted by Paulette Chanel, the prevention director. you here. Please come forward. Got a good group here this morning. Good morning. Hello, Eric. Whereas alcohol and drug abuse in this nation have reached epidemic stages and it is imperative that visible unified prevention education efforts by the community members be launched to eliminate the demand for drugs and the National Red Ribbon Campaign offers citizens the opportunity to demonstrate their commitment to drug-free lifestyles, no use of illegal drugs, no illegally, no illegal use of legal drugs, and the National Red Ribbon Campaign will be separated in every community in America during Red Ribbon Week, October 2331, and business, government, parents, law enforcement, media, medical institution, religious institution, schools, senior citizens, service organizations, and youth will demonstrate their commitment to healthy drug-free lifestyles by wearing and displaying red ribbons during this week-long campaign, and the community of San Angelo, Texas, further commits its resources to ensure the success of the Red Revent Campaign. Therefore, I, Duane Morrison, Mayor of the City of San Angelo, on behalf of our entire City Council, do hereby proclaim October 23-31 as Red Revent Week and encourages citizens

[0:06:10] to participate in drug prevention, education activities not only during Red Revent Week but all year long, making a visible statement that we are strongly committed to a drug-free city. Thank you. Thank you. And you get to make space. I encourage you all to try to say Red Ribbon Week five times really fast. It's difficult. Thank you all. And thank you City Council for this proclamation. We are truly honored to have the dedication of our community as it relates to reducing drug use in our community and eliminating it. And on behalf of the Alcohol and Drug Abuse Council for the Conchia Valley, Conchia Valley cares are a youth of our community and the citizens of St. Angelo as well. We thank you for your dedication to in your individual lives and in your families, in your workplaces, and everywhere, encouraging a drug-free lifestyle. As you may know, Alcohol and Drug Abuse Council for the Conchia Valley has been in our community for many decades and are a visible sign of of recovery that is possible for those that suffer from this horrible affliction. Our prevention efforts assist the youth of our community and encourage them to say no to drugs. And the good news is that most youth choose not to use. So that is the good news. Here I have our CEO for the Alcohol and Drug Abuse Council, Eric Sanchez project director for the Concho Valley Cares Coalition, Jennifer Pitman and the prevention director or coordinator for our prevention efforts, Chelsea Ashton. If you should ever have any questions or need assistance, please don't hesitate to ask us. Thank you.

[0:08:25] We have another one. This is a recognition. The City of St. Angelo Finance Department. So if I could have Tina and whoever you want to bring, let's bring this out. They are receiving the certificate of achievement for excellence in financial reporting by the Government Finance Officers Association of the United States and Canada. This certificate of achievement is the highest form of recognition in the area of government accounting and financial reporting and its attainment, represented very significant achievement by the government and its management. And here is your certificate. Congratulations for you and your department. Tell us about it. Well, we are really thankful for this recognition of our finance department. It's a recognition of the diligence and the effort that we put into preparing the financial report at the end of the year. Really especially when I thank my chief accountant, Jaime Guerrero, who put a lot of extra time and effort into this year's audit as well as the rest of our accounting division. And especially the other directors and managers that send us information, we have to rely on them quite a bit so we appreciate them as well. Thank you. In this next presentation is something that gives me a lot of pride in my city. St. Angelo probably has more talent musically than probably any city in the world and I think right up at the very top of this list is the group that I'm going to introduce next. John Silver's had a lot to do with this because several years ago he was instrumental in getting the school system to put a mariachi program into Edison Jr. High and Johnny tells me that all but Resindo was in this original program. So these kids have been together, not kids, but they were kids when they started. They've been together a long time. I heard them at the September DS, the SE September.

[0:10:27] I saw them there and they performed and it was wonderful. They did a rendition of the Eyes of Texas kind of a medley and I asked them to come today so that we could honor them and I want to play that too. So anyway, let me read this. y'all would come forward and let me read this and I'll have Peggy I'll have to introduce the group whereas the mariachi alma mexicana was founded on july 2001 it was formed by he say he say he say he Garcia and on july 214 mariachi alma mexicana marked the 13th year anniversary and mariachi alma mexicana has performed for various functions and events in cenagilo throughout the state of texas and in New Mexico, and the members of Mariachi Ama, Mexicana, are focused and dedicated to providing positive entertainment to a growing audience while keeping the art form of Mariachi music alive. Now, therefore, I, Duane Morrison, the mayor of the City of San Angelo, with the City Council, do hereby recognize and applaud Mariachi Ama, Mexicana, for their commitment to enhance the art and cultural heritage of San Angelo over the last 13 years. And I'd also like to recognize Joe Munoz, who was here on behalf of ASU, but I think you probably had something to do with this back there then, so appreciate you, Joe. Would you introduce your members and here is you have the microphone. We just want to thank Mayor Morrison and the City Council for inviting us here today and the City of San Angelo as well because Yaki was busy weekend after weekend, so thank you so much. It's been a fun 13 years so far and we look forward to the next 13 years. Right here we have Ezra Ramirez on the Gitaron. He's a Y Garcia on the Buella. We have Rosandro Ramos on the trumpet, Jeremy Haca's on guitar, Carolina Limon on the guitar, and Becky Torres on the violin and myself, Peggy Garcia on violin. And we'd like to share a little bit of

[0:12:27] the checks as Natalie for you.

[0:15:42] So I imagine here's something a little bit more traditional.

[0:18:46] Thank you all so very much. And these are hometown San Angelo people here, and they are tremendous at what they do. Also, like say, Rosendo, I think is at Lincoln Junior High now, and is continuing to teach mariachis. And he not only plays mariachis music, he's a heck of a jazz trumpetist too. So very good. I appreciate y'all so very much. Thank you so much for being with us this morning. I'd like to invite Alicia Ramirez to the front, please. Today is Alicia's last day with us. She has been the city clerk for us for about eight years now. She's been with the city for over 20 years. We're sad to see her go. She's a person of the utmost professionalism. She has done a tremendous job for us. You talk about somebody of character and integrity. We have really appreciated all the work she's done for us. We do have actually two awards here. I'd like to read the first one. If I can, I don't have my reading glasses right now. You wanna read that for me? I'll read that for you. Alicia R. Ramirez, City Clerk, in grateful appreciation for 23 years of dedicated service to the City of San Angelo, November 1991 to October 2014. This one is, one of our traditions here is that when we have a longtime employee who has served for a long time, we like to retire a flag off of City Hall. I do this one a little sad because Alicia's been a super friend of mine for a number of years. And this is a Texas flag that flew over San Angelo City Hall, was retired in Alicia's honor.

[0:20:49] And it's to Alicia for 23 years of service. And it says, this Texas flag flew over San Angelo City Hall and was retired in honor of Alicia Ramirez and presented to her today. So congratulations. Thank you. Everyone, I'm very humbled. I'm usually the one in the background that doesn't like to be upfront. Thank you, and thank you, Mr. Valenzuela, Mr. Mayor Morrison. I'm very humbled. Thank you. I have depended on this girl ever since I've been on council. And she has protected all of us. We're on a measure. We are going to miss her. And I've talked to her in every way I can to get her to stay. But she's going to do that, do that, down around Austin to be a little closer to her family. I understand that. But it gets great loss to the city of San Angelo. wish her best. Wish she wasn't leaving. Thank you, Lisa. I suspect we're going to be here at almost five o'clock today. So it's good to start this meeting off in a festive mood with our mariades. We are now ready for public comment, which is the part of our agenda where we allow anyone that wishes to speak to anything that is not on the agenda or someone who wishes to

[0:22:53] pull something from consent. Let me read the legalities here then we will open it up to public comment. Public comment, the council takes public comment on all items in the regular agenda. Public input on the regular agenda item will be taken as appropriate discussion. Public input on an item not on the agenda or consent agenda may be identified and requested for consideration of the council at this time. The council may request an item to be placed on a future agenda or for a consent agenda item to be moved to the regular agenda for public input. So at this time, we will open up the floor to anyone that wishes to come forward, whether it be praise or condemnation for the council, or if you have something you need to pull to the regular agenda from consent, this is your time. Form a line. We'll start with you, Craig. Craig Myers, I've been asked by a number of people to bring before the council an issue that's come up a time and again, a number of community organizations, individuals and sometimes some of the council members themselves have brought up the issue of a restroom in MLK Park. Right now, it's a very timely issue. Back years ago, I said on the committee that dealt with housing issues that were coming up because of the oil boom and there were a lot of people and we see the result of their work. There was a number of folks that spoke about apartments, about man camps, about developments, and new business, and all those things have come to fruition. And I was sort of there to bring up the issue of how this impacts the people who are less advantaged. We're finding out every single week I have more than one person come to my office talking about being evicted for no fault of their own, the latest being a 63-year-old woman supporting her 67-year-old disabled husband

[0:24:56] lived in her house for eight years, were told a week ago that they had to move because he was moving them out, painting it up and doubling the rent. So the things that have impacted the poorer people in our community are really accelerating. And everything that impacts their neighborhoods needs to be taken quite seriously. Black-sheared neighborhood has seen great transformation in terms of the physical structure, housing, policing, the environment, all kinds of things have improved greatly. But all the recent studies, particularly those that come to the newspaper from Ken Stewart and from Casey Jones from ASU indicate that it is still the economically least advantaged neighborhood in the community. And while a lot of things are gonna have to be done in order to provide for housing and basic necessities, we need to look at what those people need in terms of their public amenities. The only, the only public recreation facility for people who live in that neighborhood, and they can't afford many private recreational opportunities is MLK Park. An MLK Park, if you drive past it almost any day, other than the major celebrations, you'll see it filled with people, older people, and children. But you drive by every day that is not one of those holidays. You'll find a lot of adults, no children. It's been built for children. It's got wonderful facilities for children. It's part of one of the best park systems in the country, but kids don't go there. The reason, the same reasons that we were talking about when you looked at the 19th Street sidewalks.

[0:26:58] A lot of people are on foot. You drive through the neighborhood. More people are walking than anywhere else. And a lot of them are among those people that the recent studies indicate are the highest concentration of elderly people are low income in the community, and they're raising their grandchildren. And any childcare provider, any kindergarten, elementary teachers will tell you that you can get people who have to walk 15 or 20 minutes with their small children to a place and five minutes after they get there, they got to go to the bathroom, and there's no place there. and it's cost ineffective to provide a beautiful facility like that and then make it inaccessible to the people that you've built it for. Without John's, you're not going to have little John and a little Mary. We've got a long time since the rural ethic where a little boy can go find a tree, relieve himself and not be picked up for exposure. That just ain't happening anymore. It's about $100,000. It's been approved by the Park Department, as I understand it. It's on the capital improvements plan, and I understand that that will be discussed in several months. That's going to come up. But I've also worked with city staff people for a long, long time in identifying and implementing programs to know that long before that list comes up for public comment. If it's not been discussed by the staff, if it's not been vetted and endorsed by City Council, their recommendations are generally taken and there's not much change. This is not in competition at $100,000 with water, street infrastructure and the things that cost tens of millions of dollars. You're responsible for things that affect a large number of people, but you're also responsible for things that affect smaller groups of people a great deal.

[0:29:02] not having this park accessible to the residents of Blackshire is really impacting people who are getting hit from every direction, who are just trying to keep a roof over their heads and it's becoming increasingly difficult. I would ask that in these months, these weeks between now and the time that these things will be discussed and ranked in the capital improvement plan, that's something that's been brought up and denied, brought up and denied, brought up and ignored, time and time again, be taken with some seriousness. Because nowhere in the city of San Angelo are more people without recreational facilities accessible to them than in Blackshire. That's just the fact. It's data, it's statistically proven. People said two things they brought up against it. One, security and cost to the city. It takes about 10 minutes for one of the city employees that are out and about to go and open up secure doors in the morning and close them about dark time. Secondly, vandalism. You know how those people are? I've heard prejudicial stuff not based on factor experience time and time again. Those people will tear it up. There's vandalism all over San Angelo. vandalism and cemeteries or vandalism of businesses. When was the last time you have heard of the police called out for vandalism for a church in Blackshire? It don't happen. For Blackshire school the people don't have much and they own what they have and they take care of it. The new monument, yeah I know it's time you bet you, the new monument that was put up out there we were told time and time again that's foolish it'll be vandalized it'll be defaced you know before it's been up a month my wife and I were co-chairs of putting that up and we're so proud to see that years later not one mark has been not one please consider

[0:31:04] this thank you thank you Craig I didn't finish reading I should have completed it those that come to the podium will state their name they will be given three to five minutes so I would ask that you honor that who else would I approach the Council at this time. Good morning. Good morning. My name is Sanford Muton. What else you want to know? Well, here I'm here, you know, talking about this park issue, the restroom park issue. I've been here a little over a year. I came here originally for graduate school over at ASU for sports and sports administration. And part of the things that I like to do is try to impact the city in a positive way. I've been looking at those restrooms. As soon as I got here in St. Angelo, the people over at MLK Parks said, I told them about all the wonderful games and programs that I would bring to them, and they said, we don't care nothing about that. Get us a restroom, you know? So they kept telling me, get us a restroom. So I was like, what do you mean? I don't know how we're going to make that happen. So anyway, I've been dealing with Carl White and some of the people in the community, and we've discussed that, how to go about doing it. Last year, this year, this past spring, We went to the parks in our recreation board and got it approved to have a restroom built over at MLK Park. During that process, I happened to be in the Glenmore area and I went over to that park and I said, Dorne, why didn't I see this park? They got tons of people over here playing, they need a restroom also. So basically, I went and I said, well, during if we can build a $120,000 restroom over at MLK Park, it may take a little bit more money for the Glim, more project because of some sewage type issues that Carl White informed me about. But I think that it's a great project. I think that it's a great use of money.

[0:33:04] I think you can impact a lot of people and make people happy just for a little bit of money. And as far as the vandalism and all that kind of stuff, one of another issue that comes up is they say, well, the reason why those restrooms were knocked down because they were doing drugs and they were doing all kinds of illegal activities. Well, what I thought was if we could put some cameras up similar to the ones that are up over at Kirby Park on the outside. And Mike Hitchcock, he's already told me about some of the lock-in systems that we can use to monitor the doors and everything. I think that those are some of the solutions to these issues that could impact this community largely, just for a couple of $100,000. And you're talking about impacting two communities. So basically, I know my time is almost up, But I hope you guys consider this and see this as a useful use of city funds to help the people. Thanks, sir. Sure. May I ask a question? Yes, ma'am. Rick, I thought a couple of years ago we had approved the restrooms at MLK Park and the funding for that. No, it has been on the capital plan. If you call years ago when those were taking out, it was because the city council at that time went through a process of looking at where they wanted to provide restrooms and where not. So they looked at any park that was considered a neighborhood park is where they would not provide restrooms. Any parks were considered as community parks is where they would try to focus that. And a lot of that was based on manpower to keep those clean, keep them properly maintained and so forth. So we can certainly look at other directions however you want to go, but it would need to be funded. And it is listed in the capital projects. I would like to look at it again if we could put it on the agenda because the MLK Park

[0:35:05] is an area of a larger benefit. So, if we could do that at the next meeting, we'd appreciate it. And you may want to look at that as considering I know there's some talk that's going to be coming very soon concerning capital projects, and I would suggest that you bring it at that time. Mayor. No, I have further public comment. Mayor. Yes, sir. One of the other things I've brought up a couple of times is I don't understand and to me, I haven't gotten a clear answer as to why we can use our sales tax money to build these parks and yet for some reason we can't use sales tax money to maintain. I don't understand that and here again on the restrooms I once again don't understand why we can't use sales tax money for that also. And as far as I know and that's something legal could look into initially there was one project where we did put up front that we would use sales tax dollars to help maintain and that was with the sports complex and we have done that for years and then as you've seen CoCTC has been working with the city to sort of reduce that amount so we have done it but that was from the initial get-go and we'd have to start with the legal about about whether or not we can do it in other areas. And we may be getting off topic here. Any public any further public comment? Good morning. Good morning. My name is Billy Dewitt and it's been a while since I've been here so well I've missed you guys too. My public comment and I'm sure I'm probably not the only property owner in San Angelo that experienced this issue but mine has to do with the landfill, the San Angelo landfill. We own several properties and I have talked to my council person about this before and it got fixed for a little while and that's right back where it was but the issue is

[0:37:06] we pay property taxes on the land we have a water bill that includes trash on the different properties and my husband we get a letter from the City Code compliance if he lets the weeds or the grass get too tall or the tree limbs hanging in the alley or anything he has to clean that up. Well when it comes time to take it to the landfill we can only take one on the residents that we live in even though we pay property taxes water bills on the other properties they will not allow him to come to the landfill more than you know wants with with our bill, and I would like the counselor, whoever, the city manager, whomever, is responsible for maybe considering a discussion with them that the water bills come to our address. My husband has his driver's license with our address on it, and they can see right there that we're paying the water bill, but we can't, you know, we have to pay the $25 fee or whatever it is if we go more than once. So I would just like the council members to consider some kind of discussion about that because I'm sure as I said when I started that I'm not the only property owner that experiences this. Thank you. Thank you, Billy. Further comment? This is your opportunity. If there is no further comment then I will call this to an end for public and I will ask If there's anyone on the, yeah, anyone on the city, on the council or any of the council members wish to say anything is in the public comments. I'd just like to remind the constituents of SMD5 that we will have a neighborhood chat tonight at 630 at MHMR on Borregard, 630 to 730,

[0:39:07] with refreshments provided by Rio Conchocatoring. Our subject is water and Mr. Dixon will be our guest. Thank you. Don, now Sir Charlotte? No public comment. John. Marty. I just have one comment for the people that may be watching from my district on TV. I had the opportunity to spend some time with my daughter over and she she does missionary work overseas. And so I had the opportunity to spend about 15 days with her over there. And I know I got a few phone calls. But in all the wisdom I have to do with phones, if they left me messages, I didn't get them. So if they'd like to call me back, if there was a message, I'd be glad for them to do it. Right, Nick. All right then, let's move on to our consent agenda. There are a bunch of them on here. 26, 26 agenda items on the consent. Are there any consent agenda items that anyone on the council would like to pull and place on a regular agenda for discussion? Okay, Charlotte. 23, 24. Well, you usually pull about half of them, so this is great. All right, taking care of each day. And basically these, but I just want to mention these. Anyone else care to pull anything else, is any of the council members? And then I will entertain an offer. I will entertain a motion to accept consent agenda with the exception of items 23 and 24. Move approval. Second. Do we have a motion from Marty? Second from John? Any further discussion? Do I have discussion from the public on the consent agenda? All items at 23 and 24. Now I'll call for the vote. All in favor, please say aye.

[0:41:07] Aye. Opposed, nay. Put a 7-0 on that one. Let's go then to item number 23, which is the second hearing consideration of adopting an ordinance in meeting chapter 12, Exhibit A zoning ordinance of the Code and Ordinance City of San Angelo, Galen, Wiser, Housing Z1419, in order to submit Chapter 12, Exhibit A of Code of Ordinance City of San Angelo, Texas, which said Exhibit A of Chapter 12 adopts zoning regulations, use districts, and zoning math in accordance with a comprehensive plan by changing the zoning and classification of the following property to WIT, 902 and 926 West 29th Street and two unaddressed tracks located in the northwest corner of the intersection of West 29th Street and Riverside Golf Cut Road, changing the zoning from a combination of low-rise multi-family residential or a 1 in office warehouse, so that be the general commercial CG for an unaddressed 2.8 acre track of the F.E. Kramer survey 318 abstract 112 and heavy commercial CH for the remaining eastern tracks that measure 1.29 of the F.E. Kramer survey 318 abstract one one two providing for severability and providing a penalty before Miss Garrett gets into this. We have some students here from Trinity Lutheran that really need to get back. Would. Yeah, they love. Well, I just thought about it. I apologize. Do you need to get back? Would would the Council have any problem with bringing the first item under public hearing which is number 27 to the forefront and less dealing with this before we get into this item 23. Is anyone on the council have a problem with that? Rodney? No. Marty? No. John? Shorter? Yes. Don? No. Elizabeth? Well we've got five votes and says it's not a problem so let's go ahead and deal with item number 27. I've already read

[0:43:09] 23. Let's deal with 27 and then we'll go back and pick up 23. This is the first public hearing consideration of introducing an ordinance, changing the southernmost the 975 feet of YMCA drive from Luke 306 frontage road to sunset drive to Lutheran Way. An ordinance to change the name of a certain street segment to WIT, YMCA drive to Lutheran Way approximately 975 feet of street right away between Luke 306 frontage road and sunset drive in central San Angelo and providing an effective date. Rebecca Gary just changed gears just Yes sir. All right. Rebecca Garrett, Planning Manager. I'll try to go as fast as I can. This is a request for street naming, renaming of the 930 feet, which is actually 2,460 feet of YMCA drive. It's south of Sunset Drive and north of Loop 306. It is in District number one and it's in the Rio Vista neighborhood. Here are some site photos. Staff is recommending approval. There's no duplicate or similar names that are being, that are in the area. The YMCA hasn't since relocated for quite a while to downtown and the institution is at prominent features. It tends to be a little bit confusing for folks who are trying to find the church. The impacts are minimized, but they're surrounding land uses, and there are two conditions of approval that are associated with this request, versus to contact 911, and the second one is the direction of street signs to let people know that the names have changed. Here are the planning commission recommended approval on September 15 unanimously, and the action requested is to approve the renaming of the southernmost 975 feet of YMCA drive to to Lutheran way subject to two conditions of approval and adopt the ordinance on first reading and here are the two conditions of approval also in your staff report. Thank you. This in your area, Rodney? Yes. Okay. Would you like to make a motion one way or the other? Yes, but first I have a question. Who's paying for the signs? The applicant, that's part of the typical process. The applicant has to pay his work, but we erect the signs. I move that we approve the as written. I'll second. Do you have a motion to approve as written? Do I have a second?

[0:45:09] Do I have further comment from council? I have comment. I really don't like the practice of naming streets relative to an adjacent business or entity, because like in the case of the YMCA, when they're gone, it's very confusing. And so I would see this as a correction to a past poor decision. But going forward, I think that the streets owned by the public and should have more sort of generic or less specific names to the adjacent use. It has been noted and it was something we'll certainly take into account when other folks come in. Thank you. Yes ma'am. Do I have any public comment on this item? Not a call for the vote. The motion has been made to be approved this as Lutheran Drive from YMCA, all in favor of the police say aye. Aye. Any opposed nay? Put a 7-0 on it. Let's go back now to number 23. Yes sir. I've already read it. I don't want to read this. Can you go from here? Yes sir. I believe I can. The subject side is 4.12 acres. I apologize. This the number 23 item 23 is a rezoning. It is Z1419. It is 4.12 acres. It is located at the northeast corner of West 29th Street and Riverside Golf Club Road. It is in District 2 and it is in the Riverside neighborhood. Here is is the existing zoning map. As you can see, the existing zoning is low-rise multifamily and office commercial. And the proposed is general commercial and heavy commercial. So two separate zoning designations, not the one that's combined. That doesn't exist anymore. Five notices were sent with zero responses. The request is compatible with a comprehensive plan, which is commercial. It is consistent with surrounding land uses. It has close proximity and easy access to major roads. It is consistent with the major thoroughfare plan. On August 25th, Planning Commission unanimously

[0:47:11] recommended approval of the request. So the actual request of today is to approve case Z1419 and adopt the ordinance on second reading. Do you want to? Well, you threw me off gear. I'm just totally lost now. No, my question is, and I mentioned this to the city manager yesterday and to Patrick Howard yesterday. It is the second reading, but was brought to my attention after we did the first reading, that street, that street in particular has been in need of city assistance and safety for quite some time, at least 20 years. It's, you're lucky to get two cars down it at the same time side by side. And if you're changing this to heavy commercial, I've come to mind with the heavy big trucks, with the loads of pipe and stuff. There's not enough room, it's not safe, and Mr. Howard and Mr. Valenzuela both assured me would look into it and see what could be done and I just want to go to the public and let them know that finally officially maybe we will look at it and see if there's something we can do for safety motion to approve second second do have a motion to approve I do have a second public comment call for the vote all in favor please say aye pose nay put a 7-0 on it number 24 is a second hearing consideration for adopting an order some in chapter 12 exhibit a zoning Ordinance with the Code of Ordinance the City of San Angelo, Z1431, Reed, Chehan, and Ordinance amending Chapter 12 Exhibit A of the Code of Ordinance the City of San Angelo, Texas, which set Exhibit A of Chapter 12 adopt zoning regulations, use districts and a zoning map in accordance with a comprehensive plan by changing the zoning and classification to the following property to width and an unaddressed track located approximately 920 feet southeast of the intersection of Sherwood way and view it straight this property specifically occupies the west 66 feet of the shay-hand subdivision section three block four light a western San Angelo chaining the zoning classification from office commercial CEO to general commercial CG providing for severe ability and providing a penalty yes ma'am

[0:49:14] short it what is your question thing I had received a phone call after the first reading of this to remind me how close this was to residents in neighborhoods and to also remind me that we have had with all the commercial building out there apparently, and we're looking into it, some flooding of homes out in that area because the water diversion has been interrupted and maybe not necessary going into the aurora. This is on the flip side of Sherwood Way, I want to say the flip side of the inside, whereas we're having the water problems on the outside, and I simply wanted to ask Mr. Howard publicly, I did ask him yesterday, to look into and make sure that anything that comes in commercialized that the flow of water is still going toward the Arroya and not being diverted toward the housing district because there are a number of homes in that area. And we have a combining of the Arroyas back there. And that's the only comment I wanted to make. And I should have caught it on the last time, but a constituent wouldn't mind, got my attention on it and I moved to approve. So as presented. Second. Do you have a motion to approve or do you have a second? Further comment from Council? What one question I have on that that host read it the master plan for the host read is is commercial correct So I mean this is as commercial This is just housekeeping isn't just to get this one little section to line with the rest of it Is that the way I remember it what the applicant would like to do is put in a hotel? There's a remnant piece that just had a strange zoning that was different. That's all they're doing is to clean up Okay, that's what it's all public comment call for the vote all in favor. Please say aye any opposed nay Put a 7-0 on that one all right we are to number 28 it is 955 y'all want to take a few minutes break before we get into this because this is going to take some time please short break short short short let's take about 10 to 15 minutes and ten ten minutes nine six it is 10 10 I call the meeting back to order this is number 28 it's

[0:51:20] presentation and discussion on light and heavy manufacturing zoning classifications. The City Council's role as pertains to such classifications and processes, specifically as it relates to the post sand transloting facility on Hill Street. And I did ask if this be placed on the agenda, so that we could just kind of air this out so that people knows exactly where we are and where we're coming from shortly did also ask for it and someone else had asked for it. So this is this is on there so that we can talk about it. I'm I'm gonna have you, Patrick, kind of make a presentation of what you have done is that to give the city's viewpoint on this, I think Lee Flugger has a presentation I would like for Lee to make his after you get through and then we will open it up for public comment. So, kind of the format I'd like to follow if everybody's approves of that. As you get started with you, buddy. Wonderful, thank you. Good morning Mayor and members of City Council. This is item number 28, which is an overview of lighting heavy manufacturing and allowed uses therein. It's just an outline. So we'll start with the background analysis. The key point of this slide is to suggest that the state enabling legislation allows for cities to create a comprehensive plan and that's an zoning additionally and that's chapters 211 and 213 respectively of the local government code. The idea for zoning is to really promote orderly growth and development. Without zoning, there are cities that do not have zoning. It is more of a challenge to provide for orderly growth and development, protecting the interests of individual property owners while looking at the best use of land and protecting the health, safety, and morals of the general welfare. So essentially, that is what zoning's intent when cities adopt zoning ordinances, and this is adopted by city council.

[0:53:20] So just a little bit more about what zoning regulates. So you talk about height of buildings, the bulk of buildings, the percentage of the lot in which buildings can cover the size of yards and all the lists you see here before you. OK, and this slide shows the different zoning designations. R&E is a ranch in the States, and then we'll go down to the bottom, which is light manufacturing and heavy manufacturing, which is a subject of this discussion today. Okay, so as it relates to light manufacturing, just about what the overall intent of light manufacturing is, is to provide opportunities for businesses in the processing, manufacturing, storage, and service industries, which are characterized by relatively low-distance and at minimally-adversing neighboring properties. Additionally, heavy manufacturing provides opportunity for processing and manufacturing that may in fact be inherently noxious. However, those there are standards put in place to protect the citizenry as well, but the heavy manufacturing is likely to have those type of noxious and dangerous materials. So as it relates to the allowed uses, however, within light, I'm sorry, in heavy manufacturing, the major distinction in between light and heavy manufacturing is the idea of manufacturing production as a use in the heavy designation. And so I'll explain a little bit more. But again, the major difference between the two zoning classifications is allowance and heavy manufacturing to do manufacturing and production of heavy use. OK. So we'll talk a little bit about the Hill Street property.

[0:55:21] Everyone's aware of where it's located. There is a railroad that traverses the west side of the property It's been there since the 1800s there are neighborhoods obviously to the far Outside of the railroad tracks on the east side and I've seen neighborhoods on the west side as well of the property and That was that that area was in 1995 as you can see in 2011 not much has changed with the subject property Actually, those neighborhoods still remain intact. The area primarily is still primarily vacant and has been industrially zoned. Light manufacturing since the Zoning Ordinance was adopted by City Council in 2000. So a little bit about the subject property, it's 5.5 acres. It's own light manufacturing, as I mentioned, to the west as a railroad and to the east as Hill Street and it's primarily vacant. So here you can see actually the neighboring zoning classifications. The applicant or the property owner I should say is proposing to translode goods, in this case the goods are sand. The use category that we've determined to fall within is warehouse and freight movement, and I'll talk about that later on. And with respect to, has this materials in a waste? He has indicated that there aren't any zoning district is like manufacturing, okay. So a little bit about warehouse and freight, which is this was a determination that we made as a staff, it talks about storage or movement of goods themselves, it talks about the idea of occasional pickups, but primarily the storage and movement of materials note that the production of

[0:57:25] materials, however, which is another joint classification used within the classification of light manufacturing I'll mention later on. Some of the examples provided were truck and air freight terminals, gasoline and patrol product terminals, freight forwarding services, stockpiling and saying gravel and the like. And what I've done for members of the audience and the council is I've provided some excerpts from the zoning ordinance so there are these items are obviously contained within the zoning ordinance and for those that are looking for that this is there's a packet that's should be circulated around for those who want to look at it. So here's some concerns that were expressed directly to me with respect to the potential use of the property for a Transloading of the sand. One was a traffic. We wanted to mention that the streets that to the east side of the property, those local streets of GH, IJ and K between Hill Street and Irving, do you have signage that does prohibit heavy truck traffic? Staff is inclined to believe that we potentially could post similar signage on the west side of the property to also discourage truck traffic traversing the neighborhood. And so, with the installation of the signage, enforcement could pursue in-sue, and we are suggesting that that would be some means of minimizing the traversing of trucks through the neighborhood. However, there are signage. There's signage, again, to the east of the property. There was some discussion about TCEQ and how they view the property. There is a permit that is generally required in certain cases. However, in this case, TCEQ, and I'm sorry they couldn't be here today,

[0:59:28] Greg Day-in-heim is with the local office of TCEQ. He had another appointment, so he wasn't able to be here with us today. However, they determined that Rule 30, TAC 106148, did authorize the use of the activity that was being proposed. I also have a copy of that in the packet that is being circulated. And so that those requirements, environmental requirements, will be monitored by TCQ, and they have determined that the activity is it would be allowed on the site without the ensuing permit. And this is a copy of the code. This is the same thing that, again, is in your packet. Rule 106, 148. So what has come to my attention? In many cases, there's been quotes making reference to some of the language within the manufacturing production. Use category within light manufacturing. And so I wanted to make a comparison between what we've determined the use to be allowed within, which is warehouse and freight versus the manufacturing and production. So with respect to nuisances and how those are addressed, warehouse and freight does not allow for those waste related uses primarily, but those that are allowed would be allowed via conditional use. And then there are some performance standards related to conditional uses that would apply in that case. And that's the determination we made that warehouse and freight would be appropriate given the fact that there is no production on site and is primarily used for storage of some material and then the ensuing movement of that material versus production of material, manufacturer production of material and then movement. And so in this case,

[1:01:29] With manufacturing production, that's where the language speaks specifically to noxious and melodorous impacts and talks about the definition of between noxious effects which talks about noise smoke, odor, dust, and the like which is what many have concerns about as it relates to the proposed facility. again, we have determined it to be warehouse and freight and there are other assumptions made regarding the specific material. So I just wanted to share some options given what we've understood and some of the challenges that have been raised regarding the subject property. We do believe that, quite frankly, given the fact that the zoning has been industrial for some time, that the future line used for the property does suggest that it should should be should be commercial and so we believe that one potential option in the future would be to zone properties for you know that we believe are inappropriately that are inconsistent necessarily with the future land use to allow for this change which city could initiate but one of the options also that we listed here was a text amendment that would be more specific about regulating goods and the like that we are seeing here. There have been different trends in the industry since 2000, quite frankly. And it's been the zoning ordinances do for an update. And so I think language related to some of this activity that we've been seeing recently would help us in order to address some of these needs that maybe weren't identified in the year 2000. So option two would also be a text amendment. However, we believe that in order to follow through that we could potentially review those industrial zone properties throughout the city and look

[1:03:29] for a land use that may be land use and zoning primarily zoning that may be more appropriate given the fact that many of the in many cases these areas are abutting residential areas and I think that's just traditionally how some of those have evolved over the over the years and in years pass an industrial and you'd find industrial residential properties adjacent to each other. So, just a little bit about what's happened to date. We did, there was an appeal made to the verification letter that was issued to the property owner. I did respond to the letter on that same day, confirming that we believe that the zoning would be appropriate for the activity. The next step for that individual or other applicants would be to, well in this case the individual that has made the appeal and we've responded to is they have the ability to go to the Zoning Board of Adjustment either in November, December or following months. We have 30 days once we've gotten that request to appeal to the Zoning Board of Adjustment to place that on the agenda and to have a meeting. So that is one option as well and the Zoning Board of Adjustment does have the ability to make a determination of the Zoning Classification other than what was made previously and we we certainly want to provide that opportunity as well. So with that, any questions on me? Council. Any questions from Council? Mr. Hodden, what is your recommendation is to what I believed I heard you say

[1:05:29] was that our current ordinance or zoning does require some updates and some recommendations so that we can apply throughout the city, no matter where, to have better control over the effects that it has in the neighboring community if it's within the city limits. Is that what I heard you say? Yes ma'am, that is what you heard. I believe that is a preferred course of action. I believe that we should go a step further and begin to have the city initiate rezoning. Because I know that that's been something that's been attempted in the past and wasn't necessarily embraced. However, I believe that that would be appropriate to even have the city initiate some of these resignings to ensure that we can protect the integrity and health of our firm, some of these neighboring communities. So that the public knows out there, the viewing public, the council has not seen or reviewed the existing item that came forth, there was no need for it, because it fell in all the right categories as the existing ordinances are written. So therefore, they don't have any type of jurisdiction over what has been done at this time. and the only course of action is for citizens to go through the ZBA and not the council on this issue, is that correct? That's correct. Okay, I for one would love to see you move forward with your recommendations to bring our ordinances up to date and more current than they are from previously written. We're growing, we're growing all over the city in every direction and we certainly don't want to impede or restrict on existing neighborhoods are people that have lived here and paid taxes here. So I see it as the appropriate route to go is to ask you to look into and make some recommendations for council to prevent this from happening in the future. Rodney, so basically in a nutshell, just for the general public, he's gonna be able to do this at this time,

[1:07:29] probably unless the board overturns this and then it would come back to us as the council, correct? No. No. No. Us as a council, though, don't we have an option after this is in place and everything's going over there. We can come back with something about nuisance. Okay. So the action, if this item were to go to the ZBA, they'd be the final authority on the decision related to the zoning. To your second point, yes, the council, if there are changes to the zoning orders, it obviously come before this body for for approval. Yes. And items related to the one that's in place. No, it does not. Is it true that the zoning Board of Adjustments decision can be appealed to a court of record? That is correct. Okay, so it's outside of this forum. That was my question. Right, which is outside of the realm of obviously this your jurisdiction, but yes, you can appeal it to a higher authority. And if there is, after this thing begins to work, if there's problems and they can prove damages, then it could be taken to the courts of appeal, couldn't it? Yes. Okay. Mayor. Yes, ma'am. If you're recommending in these options, a rewriting or better definitions within the zoning ordinance, do you, are you acknowledging that there is a weakness in the existing zoning ordinance? Absolutely. Yes, or confusion in the existing zoning ordinance? There could be further clarification in the zoning. I think the other thing is that, again, trends have changed. I don't think anybody was thinking about fracking of sand in 2000. I wasn't here, so you all may have been. But I believe that there are trends in development activity that need to be considered, obviously. And I think that there are, it doesn't really account for that in the current zoning order. Yes, go ahead. So you don't think the current zoning ordinance addresses the issue of nuisance, clearly?

[1:09:31] I believe it does. I believe it does in light of activities or goods being produced on site. It really speaks to that as it relates to manufacturing production. But when the assumption is being made here that items that are being brought to the site are not noxious and they're not hazardous. They're assuming that those are clean and it doesn't speak to the issue of how you address that necessarily, other than when they talked about waste materials. And can you tell us why TCEQ is involved in this if there's no hazard at all with this kind of activity? Well, TCEQ has a responsibility to look at all activities of the sort and to make a determination. And so that's sort of outside of the purview of the city when there's issues that potentially may threaten the environment. They have that authority to ensure that the health welfare of the residents is being protected. And so we do defer to their authority as it relates to items of sorrow. Thank you. We were not thinking of this in 2000. We wouldn't even think of this in 2012. This is a new deal, Johnny. I was just gonna add, and I'm gonna wait until Lee makes his presentation, but I wanted to make sure and keep us all legit. Now, it was brought to my attention even yesterday, even visiting with proponent that Ms. Grindstev, you were a partner in this, so I want to make sure. No, sir. I understood that you were it. So if they- Can I clarify that? If they gave me on wrong information, I apologize, but yeah. I think it would be important, Mayor, for me to clarify my position in this. Well, let me finish mine. Well, you've made a strong assertion, so. And that's what I understood. understood so I just want to make sure that you're okay I mean if that's the case find him not I'm trying to protect you is what I'm trying to do okay but my question is and I am very it is in my district and I've heard from numerous

[1:11:36] numerous people and I appreciate the folks even from the Santa Rita area that have called me for invoice their their concern but and now before Lee makes his presentation have you guys even talked to have you folks even talked about it. I like the idea of the maybe a land swap type scenario. I don't you haven't you didn't mention that here so I'm interested in that if we can possibly move it somewhere else I'm off for it but it wasn't mentioned I wanted I want that conversation. It's not relevant to the agenda item though. Okay but I just want to throw that in there that it wasn't in there in this discussion So that's correct. I mean it's outside of the realm of what we're discussing today, and that's really outside of My purview as it relates to you know land swaps and alike. However, that may be a likely option that you all may entertain Or the app the property owner for that matter. However, that's not that's not within the okay purview of this discussion I don't see that it's far out because it says Classifications and processes specifically as it relates to the proposed sand translating. So I don't see that he's very far out of line by asking about land swaps. Certainly, but that wouldn't be something that we would handle as far as. Lesoth, you wanna take a minute? Yes. For those that don't know, I'm an employee of Texas Pacifico Railroad, which is the railroad through the city of San Angelo that proceeds on down to Presidio. It is a property and track that's owned by the state of Texas and the company that I'm employed by is the operator of that. I have no ownership position in Texas Pacifico and merely an employee. In my position, I work with a number of customers that are looking for transportation on the track as Mr. Flueger has in this serving this area. My company has no relationship with Mr. Fluger other than the requirement to provide transportation

[1:13:45] services to and from his side. There has been some talk of a partnership that has gone nowhere with our management. So at this time we have the obligation to Mr. Fluger as we do any other developer on the rail to provide transportation as we are part of a national transportation network. I'd like for you to come up and make your presentation sir, and Lisa if you might need to help him a little bit You can help him okay Patrick. Thank you. Okay. Thank you mayor. Thank you counsel. I think I'm Gonna repeat just a little bit here, but I'll try to do it very very quickly and So I'm starting with the with the property itself itself. It's ten acres total. I lease five acres and I own five acres. And that's what it looks like right there. Now let's see if I can move it one. The property itself, it was the rail yard from 1990 to 1962. It's got 4,000 feet of track on it. As Mr. Grant have said, most of the track is owned by the state of Texas, leased by Texas Pacifico. The tracks have been dormant for 40 years and clarify one thing what Patrick said. The property does not affront any streets except for 72 feet on the very east side.

[1:15:49] It gets to Hill Street 72 feet wide, and that little strip is 330 feet long. So you have to go 330 feet to get to a street from this property. And it's bordered on all sides by ML zoning. So what I did, I did a 360, I figured some of the, some of you probably haven't sat in the middle of this property and looked around. This is looking east if you look right into the right where you see those cemetery trees might be something appropriate about that. That's where the 72 foot wide strip is going into Hill Street. What you'll notice on the back of all of these locations is there's a lot of graffiti and they're They're just big buildings and there's no way to see the streets from where you are in the middle of this particular track. You're basically looking just at the back of a lot of big metal buildings and storage areas. Permitted uses, he went through that. This is the property itself, it's bounded on all sides by other ML zone properties. There's residential on the far east, a nice residential area, then it L shapes down and then there's some over in Santa Rita on the other side of Ape Street. But around the property itself, it's all ML. no residential abutting this property at all. Patrick went through this. Obviously, when I first started this project, what I was trying to do, oh, I'm Lee Fluger, I'm sorry. And I lived in Santa Rita in your district and I, and our office at the CACS Hotel in Johnny's

[1:17:54] District, and I own several pieces of property that previously were owned by the Santa Fe Railroad and operated by Santa Fe Railroad. That's why I'm associated with these properties. You asked why I went to see the, obviously what I've been trying to do, I've been trying to figure out what I can do with this property. It's sitting there vacant and I'd like to do something with it. So first I asked the city then I asked the TCEQ on advice that that this could be controversial and I need to know whether this was something that could possibly be done. So I went to the TCEQ and they said yes it could be done. There are a lot of transloting products that can be used there. There's pipe grilling mud. The most controversial is sand and 90% of the rail today is sand product so that's probably the most logical use for this property. That's what I want to talk about the management today. Sand source, this is called Northern White Sand. It's totally pure when it's processed. It comes from Minnesota and Wisconsin by train. It arrives in enclosed tank cars or rail cars and it's conveyed with a with a conveyor like you see right there and he goes from the tank car to the to the truck the tank excuse me the rail car is completely enclosed the sand drops about six inches from the rail car to the conveyor the conveyor is completely enclosed and it drops the sand into a completely enclosed truck there was some controversy or some thought processes earlier that the trucks that are carrying this were like the dump trucks you see in the construction site that carry $5 a yard material. This sand cost about $120

[1:20:01] to $160 a ton. And so they are very protective about one letting any other impurities get to it and losing any of it. Here what you see, they're dropping the sand into the top of a small porthole in the top of the truck. As soon as the truck is full, they close the top of the truck. This is the conveyor. It's completely enclosed, and you'll notice on the right-hand side of it there, there's a vacuum dust collector that collects the dust that might have been generated during the trip down here. Again, here's the transloading process. This sand is cleaned, sorted for size, washed multiple times and dried and then loaded into these enclosed railroad cars. That's all done at the mine. At the transloading site, wherever it may be, here or anywhere else along the railroad, the sand is transferred from an enclosed rail car to an enclosed truck using an enclosed conveyor. In terms of this property, there's no manufacturing, no processing, no mixing, no storing, and no selling done to the sand. You heard that. No storing. There was some comment about storing in one of Patrick's deal for light manufacturing. There's no storing. TCEQ says you don't store it. The business model that we're working on right now, and really, if you could understand what What this process is, whoever works the process is, doesn't own the product. The product is owned by the mines and it's sold to the frack people. I mean to the oil company. What the Transloader does is very much like the checkout guy at the grocery store or the

[1:22:03] bagger that helps your wife take the groceries to the car. Her groceries and her cart, he moves them from the cart to her trunk to help her. That's what we do. We just move the sand from the rail car to the to the truck. I say we. I'm saying whoever Translover may be. What we're what this business model looks like would to do if I'm trying to to interest somebody to be operateable operating this deal is about 150 rail cars a month. These cars are delivered called switches and those switches would be made between midnight and 5 a.m. The length of time that a switch would block a city street that's Highland Street coming in there would be about three minutes on if you have eight switches a month to do 150 cars that's 19 cars of the switch. I couldn't get the data for the other because it would take longer if there were fewer switches. This is important none of the 3950 feet railroad track that's going to be used to translode from is adjacent to any street, nor does it cross any street. The only time a train across the street would be to deliver the cars. This is the model for sand, truck activity. Been a lot of conversation about trucks. And there have been conversations about these trucks are going to weigh 150,000 They don't quite, they don't quite get up to that level. They carry 20 tons of sand, takes five trucks to unload one rail car.

[1:24:03] In this business model are 750 truck loads. That's 24 trucks a day. That's an average of one truck an hour. It takes six minutes to load the sand into a truck. That's the average. Here are the dust concerns. There's there's a lot of dust concern and this this is a true concern here. There's some other things other concerns. I've been hit up that that by cleaning the mesquite trees off of that lot and putting Clichy rock on it that I was I was doing something for global warming. So I want to address that But but the dust concerns are real deal. It's controlled by the TCEQ. The fracks end itself. Let's take two different deals. And a lot of people talk about Barnhart. Barnhart's got a water problem. TECQ says you've got a water, the kalichi. They don't have any water at Barnhart. And they're not watering the kalichi. But it makes a mess. And I agree with that. That's a difference in operation. If you would perceive that, there are some people in town, if you compare Barnhart to some people in town that don't mow their grass and keep trash out in their front yard and say, well, you can't do another subdivision because there are people in town that don't manage their business right. It's not the way to look at it. You got to look at what is available in the market. Today's market is you don't pollute. So they have systems, they have rail cars that are getting closed, they have conveyors that are enclosed, and they have trucks that are enclosed. They don't want the sand to be spread and have a pollutant problem.

[1:26:07] So the sands are processing, cleaned at the mine, again it's encapsulated in conveyor trough. That conveyor trough has a dust collector on it. It's a very short process time to load a truck is six minutes. That's how much time this sand sees the light of day and there's no sand stored on the site. In fact, TXPF wants you to, if you do have any spillage, they really prefer very much that you clean all that up with vacuums. he does the problem on this on this side is 330 feet till you get to a street and then the yard dust is by regulation TCQ has to be controlled with dust suppressants or water the traffic impact they got two bunches of traffic another issue. It's a big issue for the neighborhoods. Right now there's over 8,000 cars a day going down Bryant. The truck traffic there's 3,200 trucks a day going down Bryant and the business model says that we will add 24 trucks a day to that. Another area that some of the folks have shared with me is trucks driving through the neighborhood. I think you know that it's prohibited. You you can't drive trucks through the neighborhood. But the drivers that will be coming to this site to load sand are drivers that know where it is and know how to get there. They won't get lost and wander through the deal, through the neighborhood. The people that wander through the neighborhood are third party drivers that pick up a load in Washington DC and start bringing it in here in three o'clock in the morning, they don't know where they are and they're trying to find some other business.

[1:28:09] Cuing a trucks on the street was a question. This site is 10 acres, it'll handle all the trucks that would ever be used and they won't ever be on the street. Today, there is queuing on Hill Street because trucks arrive at 3 o'clock in the morning and the gates are shut, where they're going to deliver their product. This is a neighborhood impact. What these pictures are going to show you that from the neighborhood, you can't see the site. this this I took a picture from the street looking toward the site and this is what you see you see it's 330 feet this is where the entry would entryway would be on i-street but basically all you see are big metal buildings you can't see the activity that's going to be going on on the site itself and this is where I took the pictures from going across here the economic impact of this project it'll be eight the way in our business model 18 new jobs estimated payroll nine hundred thirty nine thousand dollars that's are there any questions but anyway I look let me say just opine I look forward to working with you any way we could on this to minimize the impact I'm doing everything I can to minimize the impact I'm buying I'll I'll be sure whether I do it or whoever does it has the best equipment they they keep the dust down everything is operated correctly I've been I've been working this kind of different for me I've been working on quality of life projects for 40 years in San Angelo so this is completely different kind of ball ball game for me but this won't be a change from doing it right and management will be sure it's done right thank you Mr. plugger anyone from the council have questions for me I do for Johnny just priority you talked about the part where you actually

[1:30:13] translate the sand yeah talk more about the traffic issue that you will block traffic for how long because you've got what is it Washington Drive you got Irving Street you've got so am I am I do I understand this you've got a big a long train coming in with box cars and if they pull over to the side to unload the sand you'll be blocking that much traffic even all the way you know no I don't understand that part okay there were some questions and I was I was addressing some questions I had heard earlier that the trains would block Bryant Freeway and they would block Highland Street whenever their sand was being unloaded. And all I was saying is the only time that a train, any trains associated with activity on this site will block a road will be when the cars are being delivered to the site. And that's between midnight and five o'clock in the morning. Once the cars are delivered to site, there's 3,950 feet of track that the cars can just sit on and they won't move and they don't block any streets, because this track is not adjacent to any streets at all, except 330 feet from Hill Street, which is 72 feet wide. Does that explain it? No, sir, because what if you got a train that's got, I don't know, 50 box cars, or 50 cars, and I'm not seeing where you would not block Washington, you would not block Irving, you would not block Chadman Street. What do you know when you deliver the train? come in Johnny when you like when a train goes through town it hits all those crossings right when a train delivering cars to this site comes to this site it will pass all of those crossings it would if they do eight switches a month it

[1:32:16] will take the it the train will move at five miles an hour to delivery a train is going to be a thousand feet long. It will take three minutes for a train to cross any of those crossings to get to this site. Once it is at this site, the box cars are at this site, they won't be touching any streets. There are no streets around this site. I understand that. Adjacent to this site. I hope that's right. Rodney? Mr. Flugger, thanks for explaining a lot of this to us, but I'm pretty familiar with this this transloting. I've sold a couple of properties to companies that are doing this up on the Northside. My question to you, and I hate asking this question, but I know the public wants me to ask this question, is why would you do this in the middle of town when you own you own a bunch of property up on the Northside? Why don't we do it up on the Northside? Where it's completely away from all houses well as I said Rodney first of all it's one of the many properties that own yes it's got nearly 4,000 feet of track on it and I mean it's the configuration of the property is ideal for this for doing some sort of rail associated activity at this place. As Johnny said, if we have a better way of doing it or you want to trade this for some other property somewhere else, I'm open to any suggestion. Nobody's ever approached me with a specific deal that would do that. It's kind of like having a rice farm and saying, well, why are you farming rice there? Well, farm rice there because that's the best use for that rice farm. It's not a it's not a cow farm it's better as a rice farm or take one of these ranches out

[1:34:17] here it's not gonna be a it's never gonna be a rice farm. Well I have to disagree with you there because this thing is right in the middle of town and I know that you know when you talk about 24 truckloads a day that's if we send somebody up him on huge street right now I know it's way more than 24 a day. Well it certainly is but this this track will not handle more than that. I know but you can say that but once once you're in there and you're doing that it's done you can bring in a hundred trucks a day which I have a feeling will be close to and see that's where I'm trying and I'm pro business I want you to do this business up on the north side of town. I just don't want you to do it right in the middle of all these houses. That's the only thing. That's why I'm sitting there. That's why I asked that if there was anything that us as a council could do on nuisance and when I hate to do that to you because what's going to happen is you're going to put in all the infrastructure on this thing and then I have a feeling that everybody's going to be fighting you all the way along the way and they're going to hopefully we would eventually stop this after the fact and you've wasted all that money in. That's why I'm just I'm not understanding a lot of this. I have a hard time seeing this unless you really think that you're going to get this through. Well, Rodney, I'm here going through the process with you folks. I'm asking, I assume the right questions. I assume that my response is I'm receiving from the city and I'm receiving from the from the TCEQ or correct and I'm just trying to figure out what I can do with it if you get a piece of if you get a piece of property and you want to set you want to develop it or do something with it first thing you do is you go out and you find out what you can do with it you ask everybody and you find out what the rules are and you live within the rules but usually try to take them the path of least resistance is it would be my my plan is that I know

[1:36:20] If I'm going to get a battle and I'm going to spend millions of dollars and it's going to cost me all this this time and money When I have another piece of property I could do it on I think I would go to the other piece of property That's that's what that's the way I would look at it That that would be you Rodney if you find me another piece of property you got 4,000 feet of TXPF track, but don't you own off a Swartz Road and and North Bell Street? Don't you have it more acreage than this right there, and that's on the main yard right there. I I have acres that don't have the track. Well the tracks right there beside the acreage. Well it's gotta be on the acres to use it. That's the only questions I have. Further questions? Charlotte? Thank you Mr. Flugger. Thank you for bringing business to San Angelo and I have the same concerns. As I spoke with you before, I've had the same concerns about it being where it is. And yes, the tracks have been there. Railroad's been here since 1850. And that's where a lot of things were offloaded years ago. Our city has grown tremendously over the last 100 years. My questions and concern, I've tried to go about this visiting with you. You've addressed questions, you've told me certain things. I still have concerns with reference to the overflow, I've gone out, driven your property, your employees met me They were very nice, very cordial. I've also driven to Barnhart to look at operations over there what they are or not doing When in some businesses there and had the pleasure of having to Wipe the seats out before I could sit down because of the sand in the overflow and I'm not exaggerating I've taken pictures of that I'd like to share with the rest of the council. I've shared them with this side taken pictures of of the shoots, the conveyor belts, to just sit and watch and try to get an idea.

[1:38:23] I'm in disagreement with planning that this fit in the light manufacturing because it does produce health hazards, noise hazards, and sitting idling diesel trucks smell hazard. And where you have on the east side of the property, you have a lot of nice homes, but a lot of them don't have central heat in there. and they have to leave their windows open or their doors open. They're going to get the sift of any overflow that is out there and it could cause health problems especially with anyone with any type of lung disorder or ailment. If you go west the overflow and in some of these pictures that I've taken that I have here today you can see the green bushes are just covered in the overflow the silica sand and dusty and it takes away that beauty so The folks that live on the west of the property, you know, fearful of the float and whatever it may damage aesthetically as well as health wise to their property. Then it went downtown to the museum, the river. We have spent, as a city, millions of dollars to improve our downtown, the river, the river walk for tourism, the fort, the boss that we put down there. And just in looking at vehicles and stuff there in Barnhart that are just covered in a thick sand. My concern comes to the downtown area and what are we doing to allow a business and yes, it could be placed anywhere that didn't flow right into the direction of any of these areas and it's going to. And what are we doing to ourselves, seems like we're shooting ourselves in the foot to damage our beautiful museum, our beautiful river walk that's not known as a river walk but it's quickly being known as one. And that concerns me. And I fully understand what's done is done, and the manager feels like it's within the light. I just happen to disagree,

[1:40:24] but that will have its due process. So my concern is pleading to you about the possible other location, because this location could still handle freight, offloading a freight that is contained and concealed in boxes or shipment, other businesses that might be blooming up or supplies for the oil fields or whatever because of the ideal situation of the spur. But my concern with the shoots with the conveyor. Thank you the conveyor that takes the sand to the shoots there's still considerable overflow and in driving the property since you first started this you know back in March I've not seen any water sprinkler system or suppression and I am concerned as to and I've asked the city planning manager to explain to me why we're not requiring paved surface or paved on the road the street where they'll be going out to Avenue Avenue I is on the other side so it's Hill Street is that not required that you pave that in if it is required are you willing to pave that yes ma'am it's designed to be pain and obviously given I've got a ranch and I don't have any sand on it but I have a lot of that white stuff everywhere. But that's primary, I do believe that's kalichi, kalichi dust over at Barnhart and I do believe it can be controlled or at least that's what I'm told. So do I agree with you, I agree with you a hundred percent. If you want to make a park out of it, talk to me. I don't need another park, thank you. I mean, tell me what you want to do with it. That's why I've done things for the city for 40 years and I know whenever I first bought it, I talked to Rick and he was looking to get in the fireplace, I mean a fire station.

[1:42:29] said, hey, I'm glad you got that because I know I can trade with you. I can get it from you. And I said, yeah, you know, whatever you need, you just, but to me, the council needs to be proactive and needs to decide the importance and what the city can do. Y'all are the gorilla here. I just happened to own that piece of property. That's all I'm doing and I'm trying to work within the rules of what you've told me I can do and I'm gonna build it out if it's built out. I don't know what we're gonna do with it. Elizabeth and I have talked a lot about other products too. The one you want to talk about now is sand because that's the controversial one. But there are other products and when we first started this thing there was questions about this and both of us said hey if it's not sand there's gonna be other products that we can unload right there. I understand that in the my sir I think I did tell you that yeah thank you for mentioning that yeah my problem being is the sand even though contained in a rail card then it comes out it's subject to the open-air elements and it shoots down into from the conveyor belt to the shoots it shoots down there's still that element of it spraying out falling out or whatever when I speak of it from a health issue I am And one person does have a lung ailment. And just going to Barnhart yesterday, I got a froggy voice, but that's what it does is it causes that problem that I have to spur. So I definitely wouldn't want to live anywhere near this. No offense to anyone in the West or the East Side, Sanorita or the Side, that's why I wouldn't live there. But if I already lived there, I would be racing cane because of a health issue. I would love to see you have the business and I would love to see you put it on some different acreage and try to work out something to get rail or swap the land with someone else. I would love to see that happen to prevent what I'm afraid that we would have as this is

[1:44:33] going in. That truly concerns me. Working on the projects and the being on the committee for the swimming pool, the river the basket down there and Fort Concho I just don't want to see us damage that diamond that we have in the rough that we've been polishing with millions of dollars the last 10 15 years. I would agree with you 100% thank you those are my concerns. I've been polishing that diamond too. Yes I know you have. You know I encourage I wouldn't want to be on the zba board right now so thank you you what I wouldn't want to be on the zba board right now okay further comments Don Elizabeth I'm sure you're going to hear a lot of these comments here from some other people later I mean I don't want to hog the it's not appropriate for me to ask Mr. Flew or any questions he's a potential customer of mine I'm here to discuss the appropriateness of light manufacturing versus heavy manufacturing and there's there's no argument between this council I don't think that this is this should be heavy manufacturing if nothing else for the traffic that the traffic is the main thing I have a problem with it's not even so much the dust it's the amount of trucks that are going to come in there and are gonna park there and you know when you said one ever one ever hour well they come in in groups of six and eight I see them every day out in wall they come in at six and eight at a time and they're driving that and that's those are two very small streets that they're turning off a brian on to so that one's a four lane but it's a very narrow four lane and and then when it goes on to the Hill Street well it's a very small two lane so it's gonna cause big problems for those people that live in that neighborhood huge problems it boggles my mind that this would ever fall in light manufacturing it would never and I think that you even would agree to that, that it shouldn't be like manufacturing.

[1:46:34] You're playing by the rules, but the rules are flawed. Well, the manufacturing side of it, I do believe that you're correct. There are, there are multiple, there are dozens of trucks that go down Hill Street every day. I would argue with you on that, I don't think that doesn't. Well, ask the neighbors. I don't. He's here asking, well. Well, so it goes from dozens to hundreds. Well, they're running US US a neighbor. It won't be hundreds. But US a neighbor. It could be a hundred. Hugh Street has, you can solve it. Well, no, I can if I could. I mean, we've done it. How often does the train come through? I think you do five a day, don't you? We do about five a day. OK. Usually a hundred cars, about 75 to 100 cars per train. And when we pull empties back, it can be 120, as many as 120 coming back to the east. OK. Johnny, you have a question. Lee, and in all due respect to you, because I know you've done a lot for the community. You are a pillar of the community. But one of the concerns that I did here, and I think it was brought up a while ago, is the paving of it. I think you're only going to pay the entrance, correct the whole ten acres, just the entry way. So I wanted to clarify that. That's correct. If I misspoke, I'm sorry. No. You've set it right. And I think that's where the dust problem comes up. I think if you get 18 wheelers, and I totally agree that if we had the foresight, I would have requested this zone be changed long time ago and not allow, who knew you were going to come up with the idea or somebody's going to come up with this sand idea. But my other question is, and Patrick, maybe you can answer it. I know that Avenue GH, IJK, and you mentioned all those, and they have the vehicles prohibited

[1:48:39] three and a half tons. You didn't mention Irving Street. Does Irving Street also fall under that category of the large, do you know? You take mine off. Irving Street, I'm sorry, is not designated with signage, trying to find a presentation, I'm sorry. I mean, we can look into the, I just, you know. Every street does not have designated signage that prohibits the traffic in. So therefore, there is no enforcement when there's not the appropriate signage, but I don't believe that that's classified as similar to the Avenue streets. Well, I will just say that, you know, I have gotten numerous phone calls and I appreciate the phone calls. And Lee, we're just voicing the concerns of the community, you know, it's not a Johnny Silver's thing, or a- Oh, no, I am too. No, I am too. It is the community as a whole, too. We want to try to do the best we can for the community. And the last thing I want your business to be up there, Mr. Flugger, I think it's an awesome deal for the city of St. Angelo. It just comes strictly down to location, just strictly location. That's it. I understand that. So I understand there's an issue, and I understand there's people that don't like fracking, And they're gonna be, you know, they've got their agenda against the whole program anyway, anywhere it may be, regardless of what someone would say taking somewhere else. It just happened to be we're working with a specific location today. And is there an action that could be done that would mitigate one or all of these, my sources say that the management of the operation could mitigate the dust issue.

[1:50:45] It won't mitigate the traffic issue. It's gonna be there. You don't have anything to do with the one in Barnhart. Is that right? Thank you, Jesus. Because that one of the pictures I saw, Charlotte, and I appreciate those pictures, that is a nightmare waiting to happen. I go through there all the time. Oh, those are here. Those are on North, those are Pinnacle. Oh my goodness. But anyway, you know, when I find myself caught in red light facing West, they're at Lowe's and Sands and all that. And I see those trucks after truck after truck. I mean, it's mind boggling. And I instantly think about this location and that puts a bad taste in my mouth right away. And this is just coming from me personally. So I just wanted to throw that out there. So how did you ever further comment? Rodney made me think of something else I wrote the note. You mentioned your operation would be at night or in the wee hours of the morning. though I'm said TXP F's operation. Okay, but it still bothers me because of the vibration of the trucks, you know, those 18 wheelers, and especially when the tonnage is so heavy, they're loaded and they go over any track or cross, there's that rumbling noise, that vibrating noise, so to me there is a nuisance of the noise that's in there and also when the trucks are waiting to be filled from the trains, the idling, idling of the diesels. That is a nuisance, but the idling of that diesel and the smell, that becomes a nuisance as well, obnoxious smell and noise that is in the area, and that bothers me. But I need to pack up to your illustration that you had and you said something the very last item about not any of the trains loading would be crossing any St. Angelo Street. I didn't understand that on what you looked like. None of the activity associated with the transloading process would be touching any street. Oh, while the sand's coming off of the train.

[1:52:45] Right. But as far as the train getting there. There was some conversation about while the sand is being unloaded, these cranes are going to cover, they're going to cross, they're going to stop right, they're going to stop on Washington and they're going to stop traffic on all these while the transloading process is happening, and it won't, because it doesn't cross the street. Do I have further comment? Council? Mr. Fligra, thank you very much for your presentation for the explanation. OK. I wouldn't want to be in your shoes right now, sir. Thank you. We will take some public comment at this time. I'm gonna limit you to about three minutes each. We already know about the traffic, we already know about the dust, we already know about the collegiate. I mean, these things have been mentioned, they've been hammered and hammered. So I'm gonna ask you to come up and make your statements, we'll limit you about three minutes. But after we've heard about the dust and the traffic, we've heard about it. So I'm gonna ask you, if you've got something different to say, then we'd be glad to hear it. But I will take public comment at this time. Could I ask a question? Yes, ma'am. Council entertain if one area or another has a representative that we speak from just that person and hear from that person, they're representative, and give them a little more than three minutes to state their case since they're speaking for 20 or 30 people. Okay, we're gonna limit to about three minutes, but if you're not through, then I will ask the council and the council says you can have more time. We'll give you as much time as you want. We're gonna start off with three minutes. Mr. Ford, identify yourself and you got three minutes. know what you can't tell your name in three minutes. Bill Ford County Commissioner precinct four and my precinct covers Santa Rita and where we're sitting. First of all, I was real surprised that such a project would even be brought in at the location and you all dressed that. Those of us who've worked and traveled in the

[1:54:49] Permian Basin the last four or five years have seen the sand depots that are popped up and and been out there. The one at Barnhart's prime example, the on Hugh Street is even worse example because of the pollution that comes from the silica sand. It's not just from the dust because most of the trucks are set in their idle. There will be 30 or 40 trucks set in there, 50 trucks, 80 trucks blocking traffic on 67. You can't go anywhere all you do set there in the dust. The trucks aren't moving. It's the silica sand in the air. Now they don't have the provisions that he's talking about, the filters and what Not like that, but I'm not so sure that's done anywhere. I've never seen it done. The pictures you showed me were in a field where there was a mile away from any kind of buildings, which was appropriate place to put it. And I think that's an ideal location. Putting it in the middle of the city is ridiculous. You look it up, you Google Silica Sand, and you pull up the EPA location, and it causes a health hazard. Silica sands of microscopic, very tiny little piece of sand is circular, And if it gets into the lungs, it doesn't go away. It festers up and causes health hazards, lung hazards. And we're a mile less than half a mile from Shannon Hospital. I'd hate to see them busy with silica problems, like they're having in Brady. So I don't know what the solution is for y'all because of the ordinance. I think there was a very poor interpretation of the word nuisance. You have trucks. I've never seen a frack sand location with that few trucks in a location. They piled up, the guys were being sent there by a radio. He gets on a radio. He tells the trucks to get there and off load. You can't do it. 25 trucks will not do one-tenth of a frack location, a frack send operations, in a frack location, drilling rig. It takes hundreds of trucks of sand

[1:56:49] to operate a frack location. He wouldn't be able to sell it, he wouldn't be able to operate to have that kind of an operation going on. So, I find it real, and just the idea of the city doesn't have an idle ordinance to stop the trucks from idling. We don't have anything to stop them from unless you're gonna park a PD at every location across street. These guys don't always play by the rules. If you get onto Hill Street and then onto Holland, There's no traffic light to access or cross to the Bryant Boulevard. It's a stop sign. Every time you have everything you've described in this whole location, in this whole industry, does not fit where the location is being placed. It makes no sense at all. And the city should have stopped it. I'm Patrick and I have talked about this for a long time. It's just, I don't know why it was interpreted the way it was. I looked at the ordinance in nuisance of noise and sand and pollution and dust and not calling silica sand a health hazard when the EPA calls it that is beyond me, but I'm supportive of my constituents who live in Santa Rita and in downtown area that don't want this there. And I really urge the city to come up with a solution instead of going through all the the rigors of what Lee's asking for, but I think there's a better way of doing it. My time is up, thank you. Thank you, Floyd. Yes, ma'am. Hello, my name's Amanda Reynolds, and I'd like to voice my concerns about the San Depot. I provided the clerk information about the dangers of fracking, San. We all know West Texas is windy. I mean, there's no question about that. And as of Monday, there were 1,688 students enrolled in Glenmore, Crockett, Fort Concho, and Sanorita.

[1:58:51] and also 749 at the Central Freshman campus. These children, they're gonna be breathing in this air whenever they go to recess, PE, or just changing classes. Now, live about a mile from the San Depo site, and I have a six-year-old, she has asthma. She just recently found a friend in the neighborhood where she can play with. Once the San Depo site's built, we're not gonna be, she's not gonna be able to play with her. We're gonna have to go to Crystalville so her asthma isn't affected. So it's not fair to hurt or the 2,437 other students that are in the nearby areas. And I know my grandma always told me that nobody said life was fair, but this isn't about fairness. This is about justice and common sense. Common sense would tell you not to put something, a sand depot filled with sand that has cancer-causing agents and other health risk in the middle of a city. other places it could be put. And sick children, it results in parents having to call in sick so that hurts the labor force as well. And we're supposed to try to leave the world a better place than the way we found it. By having the San Depot here, we're not doing that. It's not leaving a good example for our children. So I urge you to use your influence, not let this go forth. Those of y'all that have already expressed your concerns about this, thank you for putting the health, well-being, and best interest of the residents of Thank you, ma'am. Hello, Jesse. Mr. Mayor, how are you this morning? Thank you, sir. Council, good morning. My name is Jesse Martinez and before I just begin my comments, I just want to begin by saying that just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not there. And if it's wrong going forward, then why isn't it wrong now?

[2:00:55] Mr. Mayor, Council, I represent the growing number of citizens that are opposed to the San Transfer Depot. And I believe there's a number of folks here that also are opposed. And if you are opposed, please rise and please stand. Thank you very much. You can see that this is a concern for our city. And I'll preface my comments first of all by saying that we have no issue with Mr. Flueger, his associates in their right to profit for their investments. What is troubling for us is simply the location that has been mentioned. And I do commend the Council for bringing forward this discussion of light versus heavy. The Hill Street location is currently zoned like manufacturing. But if you apply all the standards as per the city ordinance, common sense, reasonableness will lead you to conclude that this is not the appropriate designation. There are noxious effects to the neighborhood that we will discuss later at another time. We will have a presentation going forward. But right now, this operation does not meet the definition of light industry. Our contention is simply that the planning department aired in designating the San Depot as light manufacturing. And as I said, we'll make our case later. But my purpose today, then, is not to find fault or to find blame, but rather to find resolution. In my research, I'll have to admit that I was confused,

[2:02:55] somewhat frustrated, in understanding the rules, the ordinances, the permits, and TCEQ requirements. Since then, I have become somewhat knowledgeable about zoning ordinances. And I've also discovered something else that is troubling to me. And that is the manner in which the city operates and how this designation came about. In the planning department, it appears to me that there has been no significant organized collaboration among staff. Equally troubling for me is the role of our city manager. He is either absent by choice or excluded by choice. Either way, that's troubling to me. Because this is an important issue. Discussion and decisions on this matter are significant. And up to now, That's quite puzzling for me. The decision-making appears to be one of reaction rather than pro-action. For example, the Planning Department justifies that the zoning designation is based on TCEQ requirements. TCEQ requirements, on the other hand, for their requirements for permit by rule is triggered by the light manufacturing zoning designation made by the city in the first place. So then the question for me is, which comes first, the chicken or the egg? Upon filing the appeal to the zoning designation, my appeal was promptly denied. I submitted it on the 10th and you saw it on the board here.

[2:04:59] On the 10th, it was denied, further singling to me that there was no need or no perceived need or no attempt to look into the matter or to seek input or direction from anyone. And a decision of this magnitude merits at least some collaboration among the city staff. And I've had conversations with city council members, not all of you. But I've come to find out that this council has no authority, no jurisdiction on this matter. Needless to say, I'm disappointed, I'm discouraged, and disillusioned at how this is coming about. So who's accountable? Where do we go from here? On this specific issue, we are in need of leadership because otherwise we're on the brink of dysfunction and it is going to lead to disastrous ramifications. You are our leaders. You are our representatives. And I'm asking that you lead, that you lead with fairness, you lead with reasonableness, you lead with citizen inclusion. The citizens against the San Depot will continue our appeal. It is forthcoming. I do have a letter of notification of such action and I've handed a copy to the clerk to be distributed among you. I do have a letter that I will present to Mr. Flugger, I do, I do also have a copy for the media if they so desire. In closing, I don't

[2:07:05] know how we got here, but that really doesn't matter at this moment. What matters and what is important is what we do going forward. Mr. Mayor, Council members, this, this is a defining moment for all of us. I believe that this issue will give us a glimpse of what San Angelo will look like for our children and our grandchildren. What kind of San Angelo will they inherit? We deserve to know where you stand, the citizens do and will. As you move forward. They will get a peek into the content of what's in your heart and the spirit of your character. So I ask you as we move forward, again, if it's wrong tomorrow, why Why is it not wrong now? So finally, Council, I lift you and the City of St. Angelo because you do have many, many important decisions to make. So I lift you and our city up in prayer. Thank you. Thank you, Jesse. Yes, ma'am, Ms. Beavers. Hello, good morning. My name is Rachel Beaver and I'm the director of the House of Faith. We're located at the corner of Montecito and Bryant, which is just across the railroad tracks from this proposed project. Our issues and concerns involve the transportation issues. We actually transport children and we have hundreds of volunteers involved with our program and

[2:09:07] I don't know if you've driven by and you've seen all the buses and vans that are out on Bryant on our property. you may wonder do we use all those vehicles and the answer is yes. And so one of our biggest concerns is that this is going to bring an increase in big traffic into the area as we are having to cross Bryant. It's already a bit of a hazard as is but with as much transportation that we do with our children and youth we are concerned about the increase in traffic and big trucks that are coming through. The other one is the quality of air. We do have children and youth at our facility on a weekly basis, and we have actually been preparing the way, redoing our parking lot, increasing our outdoor space for the children and the youth to be able to be outside, and we have a dream of building an outdoor pavilion which will increase our usability of our property outdoors for our children and youth. And so with the sandlot directly across the railroad tracks from us, it would really, I think, cause some issues with the air quality for the youth and the children that we bring in. And so with that in mind, you know, I think we all are in agreement that we're not against business, we're not against increasing business in San Angelo, but the issue here I think is the location and it affects many, many people in our community. But with all that said, if we're needing a use for the property, we're growing and we could use that property in a very positive way, so anyway, thank you very much. Thank you, Rachel. Next, good morning.

[2:11:12] Good morning, my hearing council. I'm Krista Euchar, I'm a resident of San Angelo. And I don't need to add to anything else I think that's been said today, except for the fact that I know that everyone in this room, and especially all of you, know that this is not really the vision we have for this part of town. We have spent, as Ms. Farmer pointed out, lots of hours, including Mr. Flugger on our beautiful community. And it is beautiful. This is a beautiful cultural district. We're working hard to make it even better. And there is a place for things, and we all know this just isn't the place. And I don't think that we're gonna be really excited and happy about this location. And I think you're gonna have a lot of upset constituents, and I think it's going to fall on your shoulders. Unfortunately, that's just the way it goes. You guys take the blame for all of these things. And just because we can do something, just because it says it's on a piece of paper, does not mean we should do it. And I think this is an opportunity for us to look to the future on planning. And let's get serious about looking to the future. What could happen? What could someone take with a piece of property? And they can rightly do so. I think this is an opportunity for us to look at what's happening in West Texas, how it impacts San Angelo, and we can do it together. I think this is something that can be a positive thing in the end for all of us. Thank you. Thank you, Christy. Next. Ask them to come up toward the front, so we. Yeah, if you would, come up toward the front, kind of form a line, and there's some chairs on the front.

[2:13:12] My name's Peggy H's, and I hadn't planned on speaking today, so but I don't have anything really prepared, but this issue has been on my mind for quite a while. I've lived here all my life. I have friends and family that live here, and I worry about the future of this town. What, when industry stops or this industry, what's gonna be left? Are we going to be a little Detroit and we just have ruins, you know? We're a fracking sand thing was. I mean, I was walking down the river the other day with my dog and it's really nice down there now. It's really beautiful. The over the noise just from the traffic, you know, and we haven't even seen the sand depot yet was just, I get migraines a lot. And these trucks have a frequency and it's, you know, I agree if something isn't done with a lot of foresight to what house and Angelo's gonna evolve, where's it, you know, you can't just throw things out there and hope that, you know, the pieces will come together. People in this area pay some really high property taxes. And at the end of the day, in 10, 12 years, what are we gonna be living in? We already don't have a lot of water. So the industry will come and go, but the people in this town that own property, what are they gonna be left with? And I stand by Jesse and all the other people in this community that are asking y'all to have some forethought and where this town is going and the simplest solution, you know, everybody's for business to St. Angelo, just take that kind of business to the outside of town, not in our community. We have a beautiful swimming pool and museum and the noise is just horrible. So I hope everybody can do the right thing and really care about this community and

[2:15:13] I think Mr. Fluger asked several times telling what to do with his property. That's really not up to us, you know, that's up to him. So thank you. Thank you ma'am. Anyone else care to speak on this? Yes, my name is Jim Turner and I don't only am I a citizen of St. Andrew Law, I'm also one of the people that's probably going to have to deal with this soon because I'm on the zoning board of adjustments. So this has been a very good briefing and I'm going to help get prepared. One of the things that needs to be remembered on this and any other zoning issue is no matter Who's got the property today that's owning doesn't go with the person that goes with the property and in this case You have to zone based upon what the property could do no matter who the owner is the fact that mr. Fluger an honorable man who's had a lot of great things for this town Has this plan today that is only this large doesn't mean that that's what would be on this property next owner whatever happens because the property gets the zoning, not the person, that has to be done. The second thing is we do need to look at our zoning and tie it to other things besides just straight maps in geography. We have a lot of zoning around here that may be an issue because of infrastructure issues that don't show up on a map surface. Roads, sewer, water, other utilities that cannot support the type of zoning that is probably going to be there or it's there now but it's not being used yet because historically it was a industrial area a hundred years ago. I've got a lot of homework to do before

[2:17:19] the next zoning board meeting and I'm probably going to hear from some people now now that they know that I'm one of the people that's there and I hope this the council members will get with their zoning board members and make sure they show up. That's also been one of the issues we've had. We have a problem with a lot of boards and commissions of the zoning board, which is one of the most important of town, getting a quorum. Make sure that everybody that needs to be there is there. Thank you. Thank you, Jim. When is that next meeting? Well, it's in November, like next week or the first week of something like November, but the complaint hasn't come back, so it don't necessarily be that meeting. Is that correct? Mr. Valenzuela? That's correct. I mean, it could be scheduled for December. I do have a question, though, Mr. Mayor. Yes, ma'am. In the illustrations that Mr. Flugger gave us with the number of cars, and I do not understand rail freight foreign to me, but after you, wouldn't that time double on your screen because you've got the empty cars that have got to be put back in and the trains have got to be uncoupled, the switches have got to be done. So wouldn't that time double? Lee Flueger, the individual time you're talking about, the time that the cars, the rail cars will block a street? Yeah, you had on your illustration the number of switches. But I just want to clarify it, you're asking, that was three minutes it takes to cross that street with the cars, and that would be each time they cross the street with the cars, yes. So that time would double

[2:19:19] that you had on the street? Well, it doesn't double. It's going to be the same three minutes each time they cross. Okay. What people have asked about is they come up to an intersection and they wait for the train to go by. And there was discussions about, well, we'll be waiting there all the time for these trains to go by. And so that's why I ask, how long will it take, how long will the street be blocked when they deliver the cars? Or when they take them away each time? And it was, at least at three minutes, at five miles an hour and a thousand foot train. Okay. Thank you. And only other question I have, the last one, is of our city attorney to advise the council's position to reiterate whether we do or don't have any authority to change anything at this point and to ask the city attorney if she has reviewed the light manufacturing ordinance to see if there is a possibility of disagreement with this and how about the council can do. I have not reviewed it precisely for that reason, but I will go ahead and look. I've looked at some other city ordinances to determine how they classify sand. And I've seen designations that don't necessarily equate to ours. So I'd be happy to just some type of industrial zones, but they don't equate to ours. So I'll pursue that, but is your, so with regard to your point about whether I've examined it is right now, today, tomorrow, next week, the City Council has no authority to change anything that has been done with this property. Is that correct, or you know of some way that the Council can override? That's what I'm asking to. Well, with regard to the matter that's presented, It's a presentation and discussion, so you can make a recommendation.

[2:21:25] You're not voting as I'm seeing it as an action item. But it says as to the council's role as it pertains to such classifications and processes. I think that's what Ms. Farmer's asking. I think the best action, the best course of action for council is to make a recommendation. I can't answer your question right now. I can't answer it, but I would ask for council to please make a recommendation as it wishes for the item to be. the council make a recommendation to the ZBA board on this item. You can make a recommendation publicly, you're not before the ZBA board, it's not, but you can certainly make, and I would recommend that you make that recommendation, and then I will certainly clarify your role, but as it pertains to such classifications and processes, I would imagine that in order for a classification to be changed under the comprehensive plan or a zoning classification, it would have to be done by ordinance and so I don't think the role is different than any other action that you would take to change a classification in an ordinance. Then you're telling me if I sit up here and I say that I as a council member individually because we can't take a vote on it because it's not an action item, right? That I can say that I strongly recommend that the ZBA Board determine the opinion of the city planning manager as to whether this falls in light manufacturing or not.

[2:23:29] Because in my opinion, it does not fall in light manufacturing quite, it just doesn't. But that is my opinion and that would be my recommendation to the zoning board is it just does not meet the guidelines to be called light manufacturing. And what we could do is perhaps you can make that recommendation for staff to then bring that recommendation forward for re-examination to the zoning board. I mean, you're free to make the recommendation. I understand you're not acting as a quorum, but you'd like to have the zoning board reconsidering the classification so I would say make that recommendation and staff can take it forward. I just want to make sure that we're legal and we follow the rules as written before us. We don't like them now, we're going to change them, but I want to make certain that ZBA is aware of apparently if it's just my opinion that it should be you know reconsidered that's my standing on it Charlotte I want if I may not dance waiting Johnny let's have done I haven't said anything I I've been listening taking all this in and I tend to oversimplify things but to me it looks like as a as a council all we need to do is clarify the definition and once the definition is is clarified that, you know, fracks operation, fracking sand, unloading, offloading, those type of operations, by definition, are in heavy instead of light, that would solve the problem. The intent says characterized by a relatively low degree of nuisance and adverse impact on neighboring property. I think by the people that are here, we have an adverse impact on neighboring property. We just need to fix the definition and Mr. Flugger will know what he can do and the people within there will know

[2:25:33] what what is going on and what can and can't be put there. I drive by the one on Hughes Street every day. I live in Paul Ann. And I can tell you that when the wind blows, there's no amount of water that you can put out there that'll keep the Kalichi dust down. You can't hardly go down Hughes Street some days. As far as truck traffic, I counted eight different trucks being off-loaded or being on-loaded off of the train cars. And there were 24 setting down Bell Street right around the corner whether they were the drivers had had their time and were resting or they were waiting to be filled I don't know it doesn't matter but there's that much traffic kit at a glimpse this is just by me going by and driving down there and looking so to me I think we solved the problem and once again maybe way too simple by just saying that offloading of sand products, fracking type sand, is heavy rather than light and we go on down the road. I do have one comment from Johnny and I've got Elizabeth but we were not through with public comment and I would like to get all the public comment out of the way first and then we will have discussion and then we're gonna call this to an end. And anyone that would like to talk to this I would ask you to come to the front and be in line so we can get you in and out. Your time, sir. My name is Reid Chehan. I'm a landowner within about 300 feet of the property, and it's in the manufacturing light. When I bought it, it was manufacturing light. I don't want to be accused of somebody that bought a house next to the airport and drop about the planes. We may have a flat Christmas in St. Angelo this year due to this.

[2:27:33] I've always wanted one, but I didn't think it'd come this way. Something I think the City Council, as according to the rules, Mr. Fliger, has satisfied the rules of the city, and the question that I want to bring this different is we've got a handout from the planning manager about the TCEQ ruling on offloading, and it says if you want to follow along, you probably all got this on the back page, rail car or truck unloading of wet sand, gravel, aggregate, coal, lignite, and scrap iron or scrap steel, but not including metal ores, metal oxides, battery parts, or fine dry materials into trucks or other rail cars for transportation or other locations is permitted by rule. This is talking about wet sand, wet products. From what I understand, the Frank sand we're talking about is a dry product. It's a fine, very fine dry product. So although it has nothing to do with what the City Council can do on this or the fact that Mr. Flugger's operation seems to satisfy everything according to City Rules, I just don't understand where TCEQ came up with that this was permissible on using dry sand. So I want to post that question. Thank you, sir. Next, if anyone else cares to speak to this, I would ask that you come to the front. There's chairs here at the front.

[2:29:39] Yes, sir. Debussy Butch Smith, I live 4201 Riverman Drive. And this question is for the railroad. I worked for the railroad for 43 years and all these times and everything, they're quoting and everything. ain't going to happen. Are you going to take these cars his spot? Are you going to hotshot them out from the yard to his unloading facility or stop your westbound train to do this with you? I'm not the operations department. I can't see. If they take the westbound train it's got a, let me call it, 100 feet of cars, 100 cars. Okay, stop there. They're going to stop short of the switch. They're going to block all the cars crossing across Oaks and in Chabron Street. But they're trying to get in there, get those empties out and put the loads in there. So there's gonna be lots of delay with this train. Generally the empties are picked up on a separate route. You're right. Okay, are you gonna bring his loads from the yard by itself or top of a 150 car train? I don't know, I think you'd have to ask Mr. Flugger what his operational plan is and that would answer that I think more clearly for everyone. I think you've got a good point there. Like I said, if you stop that train there going to Barnhart, you're going to block everything east of it. I got stopped on Hughes Street and the train would stop and then it'd back up a little bit. And I was set there at Hughes Street for 20 minutes. Finally had to turn around and go back. Time to get their empties out of there and get their air test run and everything like that. I worked for three years in the road, and I'd say I know how long it takes to do stuff like that, and it ain't going to happen. I'm glad you brought that point out. That's a very viable point. Just for the trade. Thank you, sir. And that's the point I was trying to make. That's the point I was trying to make. Next. Listen to me. Anybody else care to speak to this public comment? This is your opportunity.

[2:31:39] Johnny, I believe you had a closing comment. I was just going to add to what Charlie said and she's exactly right. And I believe Mr. Martinez said it correctly that we, this council two days, right now at 11.51 a.m. do not have the authority to do anything unless we take it back. We recommended that it go back to the zoning board of adjustments and change the definition of light manufacturing heavy manufacturing because you know I don't I totally I don't agree that an 18 wheeler what Wayne I don't know how many thousand pounds is light you know 20 times that that doesn't fall under my light category and that's just me I'm not the expert but until you're right We can't do anything that they just send it back or recommend to them that they look at it even closer and slice and dissect it and Take all the comments that were made from a lot of these concerned citizens and go with that But I just want to throw that in Elizabeth I think that was the beginning of mr. Howard's presentation if you let him go back to the beginning That's how we started all of this Thank you It was in fact Again, Mr. Martinez mentioned that there wasn't an appeal that was sent to the interpretation, you know, challenging the interpretation. We did respond, however, well, we did respond fairly quickly, however, we've had two months to think about such, and so we did respond to the request. What remains is an appeal to the zoning board of adjustment that has not occurred yet. There are upcoming dates that is correct, there is one in November. There's also a meeting on December 1st, on January 5th. We have 30 days after that appeal, whenever that appeal comes to our office, we have 30 days to have a meeting of the ZBA to entertain the idea of challenging the interpretation of the planning director.

[2:33:40] And we do welcome the opportunity for folks to do that. That hasn't happened as of yet, but that's certainly a part of what potentially could happen. That's section 206 of the zoning ordinance for those who are interested in looking out. And so the first opportunity for that would be at the December meeting. That's correct, given the late date, we would need, obviously, to provide, do notice and to process that. So we were suggesting that it would be the December meeting which is on December the 1st. But we have yet to receive an appeal again to the Zoning Board of Adjustments. Once we receive that, obviously then we move forward with that, with our due diligence. Right. Yeah, right. Jesse, didn't you say that you appealed this and it was turned down? Against our, he appealed the interpretation. I had 10 days to respond. We responded the very same day because we wanted, we assumed that we wanted to continue to move forward the process that what remains is the appeal to the ZBA of the interpretation the response that I provided to Mr. Martinez and that's yet to happen. But we have that in our hand I believe now. Right. I just want to make sure that appeal is going to be heard. We welcome an appeal to the Zoning board of adjustment. So as soon as we get that we can begin to process that I will take your copy if you'd like to have your copy. Daniel yeah one more did you have some side boss? Yeah mayor I just want to make a quick comment the comment that was made a while ago as far as absent by choice as far as city manager I have pained over this deal for hours I have revisited the the interpretation I have look at the area and paint over the thought and idea of any harm coming to any of our children or anyone in that area. This is not something that I've taken lightly whatsoever and I just

[2:35:43] wanted to make sure that I made that comment known. I care a lot about this community. There are certain interpretations, certain items that are in the criteria that, quite frankly, I do look forward to CBA, I have an opportunity to take a look at that. But again, this is something that I've quite spent quite a lot of time on and quite frankly I do want a good resolution to this as well. Thank you sir. Winky did you have a comment sir? My name is HR Wardlaw just briefly a couple of clarifications. Number one this is not the appeal. This letter is not the appeal. It has to be in a different format. This is just a courtesy notice to Mr. Flugger let him know that once we file our appeal he sort of enjoined from proceeding further on his property, and we don't want him to take the position that he ambushed us. We ambushed him. And number two, I want to point out to everybody, I'm really upset as an attorney and disappointed his former councilman when Mr. Patrick Howard received the initial appeal from Jesse. He gave no, there was no due process. The opponents of this have never had the opportunity to express their opposition in any form or fashion. He just turned it down the same day. Didn't give these people, didn't give Jesse or anybody a hearing. You know, we have due process in this country and he failed, but we'll go to the ZBA. And then the third thing I want to clarify is I believe Mr. Harris is misstating the law. As I read the ordinance, when we file player appeal, he is going to have 30 days to deliver that to the ZBA and the statute does not say that the hearing has to be within 30 days from the date we file a appeal. He just has to deliver it to the ZBA and then they can set their own agendas when they want to hear this. And I want that clarified because I don't want anybody to take the position that

[2:37:46] the opponents have failed to follow the law and somehow know they are barred from having their appeal hard in front of the zba thank you winky any further comment last call well just for the record I've not said anything either but I've seen what this is done to my part of town out there on Hughes Street and I would really hate to see this same thing happen in Santa Rita on Hill Street so I think it's a terrible terrible location that's why I brought all this that's why I put this on the agenda because I wanted I wanted y'all to come out and say what you've said I wanted you to make your positions known we wanted and we needed to hear this and I think it'll go to ZBA I think it'll end probably end up in the courts and if we say no we're probably gonna get sued as a city so it's it's gonna be a fun time but you were heard and I think that's that's that's what we wanted to do today is get your input this mayor if I may let me let me just read verbatim what the what the zoning ordinance says so that it won't meaning any confusion. It says within 10 working days after a request for interpretation has been submitted the planning director shall one review and evaluate the request in light of the text of the zoning ordinance the official zoning map the comprehensive plan and any relevant any other relevant information And I think I included in the packet possibly. Number two, consult with other staff as necessary, and three, render and opinion. The interpretation shall be provided to the applicant in writing by mail. We did that on the 10th of this month. The official record, the planning director shall maintain a record of interpretations. The record of interpretation shall be available for public inspection during normal business hours.

[2:39:47] Appeal, and this is what was mentioned earlier. Appeals of written interpretations made by the Planning Director shall be taken to the Zoning Board of Adjustment within 30 days of mailing of the interpretation in accordance with the procedures in section 214. So we do have 30 days after we receive that to actually have the Zoning Board of Adjustment entertain that issue. It said it shall be taken to the zoning board of adjustment. Within 30 days. That's correct. You said 30 days. But just clarity. Well, you have up to 30 days. Up to 30 days. It says it shall be taken to the zoning board of adjustment. So if they're suggesting that it only shall be taken to the board and the board can schedule a meeting however long they choose and that's something we could figure out. I mean, if that's a challenge to the interpretation. But what our understanding of is taken to the, when it says shall be taken to the zoning board of adjustment, that means that they will hear that within 30 days of the written appeal. Okay, so Mayor, that would mean that the December meeting is not within 30 days. We would have to schedule a special meeting in order to entertain, and that is our understanding. Okay. I don't have a problem with that. What have you done? Yeah. Are we through with this one? I think we are. It is 12 o'clock. I'm going to take us into executive. And then when we come back, we'll start over again. I appreciate everyone for being here. I thank you for your comments. This is a citizen participation that I want to thank you very much. Executive F, Executive Session of the Division of Government Code Title 5, Open Government title a open government chapter 551 open meeting some chapter D exception

[2:41:47] requirement the meetings be open that's what I'm trying to do is take it I'll take us into executive session required I'm sorry I miss I misspoke I meant to say take this into executive not in open we were already in open I'm taking us from open to executive exceptions to require the meeting be open on the following section section section 5 5 1 2 so it's attorney on a matter in which to do the attorney of the government of the body, under the Texas disciplinary rules, professional conduct, state bar of Texas, clear conflicts with his chapter regarding quarterly invoices, day to day 11, 14, 9, 8, 14, and 10, 1, 14. Services rendered pursuant to the inter-local agreement between cities of Abilene Midland, San Angela effective 49 to 11, West Texas water partnership, subject to the confidentiality under said London local agreement and the consult with the attorney regarding West Texas water partnership. Section 5510712 consult with its attorney in a matter in which the duty of the attorney to the governmental body under the Texas disciplinary rules, a professional conduct of the state bar of Texas clearly conflicts with this chapter. Section 551072 to deliberate the purchase exchange lease or value of real property pertaining to Lake Nazworthy, a possible fire station location, a possible police station location, avenue peace stormwater drainage utility project section. 551074A1 to to liberate the evaluation. Did you city manager 1202? We're going to executive. Let's call this meeting back to order. It is 1.54 pm. I said we'd be back at 1.30, but I guess I was on central standard time or something. Anyhow, we are back ready for item number 29, which is Consideration of Matters related to requests for proposal HR 0114.

[2:43:48] Number A, discussion of proposals submitted for requests for proposal HR0114 for benefits regarding health RACS clinic dental, flexible spending accounts employee assistance program, EAP voluntary benefits and COBRA administration. You wanna take A and then take B, you want me to read both? You can read them both. Okay, B is consideration of selecting benefit providers related to requests, proposal HR0114, authorizing staff to negotiate contracts authorizing city manager to excuse said contracts and related documents this morning. Thank you mayor good afternoon council mayor and city manager we had seven seven different benefit plans that we went out to bid for this year the mayor just read them in the memo all of our plans in those areas expire on December 31st of this year of the seven different benefit plans that we went to bid, 49 different products were submitted across the different seven benefit plans. We did reconvene our insurance review committee which as you recall consists of eight employees and eight employees and three retirees. We met throughout the summer to review the summary of the benefit proposals that were submitted as a result of the RFP. Murphy as you recall is our consultant when it comes to our benefits and we have two members of their company here today. Julie Rickman will be handling the discussion on the ancillary products and then Jared Wills will come up and talk about the medical plan. So I will go ahead and turn it over to Julie right now. Okay hopefully I lowered that enough for y'all to hear me. I'm good afternoon. Thank Thank you again for letting us present today the RFP award process for the benefits for the

[2:45:49] City of San Angelo. State's your name, please. Sorry, I'm sorry, Julie Rickman with Holmes Murphy, I apologize for that. Wanted to talk a little bit about the RFP process and how we got to where we are today. I'm going to go over the Ancillary Marketing Analysis and the committee recommendations and then get council approvals for each benefit as we go through each one and then turn it over to Jared Wills and then we'll talk about the next steps when it comes to open enrollment and benefits. So the RFP went to market 5, 22 of 2014 and it closed in June. We had the analysis developed and we again as Lisa said we bought in the insurance review committee who worked really hard to make sure that they were looking at the benefits in the best way possible for as many people within the organization as they could. We did negotiations and analysis. They asked a lot of questions that were very helpful for us to make sure that we got the best benefits. And then we had our final recommendations were discussed. So when we talk about the dental, we received quotes from eight carriers, and we wanted to consider several factors. And rates are not the only factor. We want to make sure we talk about network disruption and benefits as well. The dental recommendation was to remain with Delta Dental. They're the in-force carrier. They had an appropriate plan designed for the market. High utilization amongst your employees, which is good, we like to see your employees using their dental benefits. The lowest network disruption, a low rate increase, there was a small rate increase that was 5% over the current rates with a rate cap for years subsequent to that. So it was a two-year rate cap. And I'll pause for a moment here on the actual rate so you can see what the differences are in the enforce rates versus the others. So we can talk about a 5% again for an employee-only coverage. Right now they're paying $16.58, employee-only coverage would just increase to $17.42. and dental benefits if 5% increase is very minimal. Was there any questions regarding the dental benefits?

[2:47:53] Okay, so again for the council decision, it was the recommendation to remain with Delta Dental for the dental benefits. So we're supposed to vote on these as they are given to us. As they are given. So we do need to vote on the dental proposal as presented. Okay, I'll ask for comment on this before we vote. Is there any comment from Council, Don? Well, why do we have more of an increase from the retirees than from the regular stand? Go back a slide, please, go back a slide. The retiree benefits had been marketed separate, and Lisa, I don't know if you wanted to speak to the retiree specifically, but the retiree benefits have always been a separate piece from the dental benefits. It's just the way that it pools. So there is a difference in the increase between the retirees and the enforce. do they have to be? They don't necessarily have to be, but it could increase the rates amongst the active employees based off of the utilization. Mayor, is there any reason for Councilman Vardaman and I to disclose the fact that we're both retirees from the city and receive these benefits? Are both of y'all retirees from City of St. Angelo? Yes, sir. That has been duly noted. Thank you. Ms. Bollion is there any issue there? And this is just my memory. But I thought we addressed this last year. I guess maybe we just talked about putting them together or the last time we dealt with this. Well, I brought it back to include retirees on the dental because they were not included last time. But I wanted to include them at the rate that the employees paid. That's the reason I'm questioning the difference. I mean, three dollars, not quite three dollars difference. And when you say it would increase the regular employees,

[2:49:56] just don't think it would increase it that much. Am I wrong, Lisa? The issue with dental and retirees is it is a separate utilization. And the insurance company does look at that different. It's not something we're controlling. It's that the insurance company is controlling it. That's the answer I was looking for. out of our control so but we are including in our packet the retirees correct and I appreciate that and what was the dental rate for the retirees last year it was a it was again the same 5% increase and I don't have that on here but so we went up 5% exactly okay so we went up a dollar so is correct do I have public comment on this come on up Russell I knew you were gonna speak for I even call Russell Smith, retired police chief. One thing I'd like to say, two things. One is that just a reminder that up until a few years ago, we were our benefits in this area, medical and stuff. We didn't have dental, but in medical was the same as the employees. And then a few years ago, under a different city manager, all that changed. I'm just trying to remind y'all that. We were paid 40 to 50% less, and today you try to pay your employees 8% against those same cities. Those other people retired, making 40 to 50% more than we do in retirement benefits. So, and I think y'all already wear this, and I'm not gonna be a dead horse. The only other thing I'd like to say is a 5% increase to some people is big. Thank you, Russell. Do I have further comment?

[2:51:56] I do. have a quick just for clarity explain the monthly annual premiums those are the overall premiums based on your current enrollment in the dental plans so if you look on the left-hand side as the employee counts for each tier and then that's the overall cost for the premiums and the overall increase difference between current and the proposed rates don't further comment I I'm going to see if anyone will make a motion on this. Let's get it started. Well, that's the best thing they could find and come up with. It is an increase, like everything else is going up. I'll make a motion to... Well, can I ask a question right quick? If we calculated what it would cost the city for the city to pay the difference between the employee and the retiree rate? I mean, how many retirees do we have and then multiply the difference in the in the right out, because I don't know that. And you're not telling me what it would cost us. I'm looking at finance. We could certainly run the numbers for you, but I don't have any of that data with me. Did you put the numbers back up, please? Yeah, it doesn't tell you there how many retirees are in each of those groups. It's the total counts. So I'd have to get the number of the counts for retirees in those plans. $13.14 difference, how many, if my math's right, $3.3. I didn't sound right when I said it. And the number of retirees that are in the plan is what I don't have that number on the top of my head. 413. That is roughly. They're not on the dinner.

[2:53:57] Yeah, they're not on the dinner. Correct. So I don't know how many we'd be shot at. It seems like we talked about that the last time when we added the retirees to the insurance. Gosh, I want to say it was maybe $60,000 or something like that at the time, but I really don't know. I'm sorry I interrupted your motion Mr. Silver's. I'll take that now. I'll move that we approve the dental rates plan presented to us with that 5% increase second I'm just wondering if it would be possible if if this motion does not pass did you say that we're gonna leave the retirees where they are and the city would pick up the difference I mean pick up at five percent on the retirees is that something we would even want to consider is that something that would cost the city a tremendous amount of money if we left the retirees where they are right now instead of putting five percent on them is this something we'd even more to consider. We're too far out of the negotiations. Well, that's kind of out there thinking is all, you know, we have more employees in the plan than we do. I mean, I'd have to run some numbers for you. I just can't come up with that. The question would be, would that be for all the retirees, not just the ones that are on the program at this point? You would have to wait for the ones that are on the program now. But I mean, we would have open enrollment, you know, after we have this meeting today, be having our open enrollment and if we announce that retirees are now going to have paid for dental then we would need to know I didn't say paid for dental pay the difference leave the rate the same instead of increasing 5% leave where they are right now at least they're familiar with what they're paying so

[2:55:58] then the city would just pick up the three dollars and whatever per the what it really be about a dollar because we're going up 5% well it's three double from the current but the difference right 16 said they were paying five percent more this year over last year that's about a dollar a dollar and a quarter so leave them where they are right now instead of taking it to 2056 leaving them down there at 19 20 or whatever it is I don't know I'm just throwing that out the motions are been made we'll have to deal with it okay but I'm just asking is there any way that we could give them that's not much relief But it's a little bit then certainly I mean let's see if it passes and it's not Let me ask this let me ask this if you leave the retirees as is and We're picking up the ones that are signed up for the dental now How does that open the door for others that are not on the plan to sign up? So even those numbers go up or that figure goes up You know I'm saying yes, so many that are yeah, there's too many variables. Yeah. Well, but you're only talking about that. $36 a year is the difference. We've got a motion and a second. Let's see what, yes, sir. What you suggested was picking the city picking up the increase on the retirees. I think I heard that the increase on retiree rates was approximately a dollar a month, which would be approximately $12 a year. If we had, and I don't know how many years signed up, if If we had 400 signed up, that would be 400 times 12, which would be in the neighborhood of $5,000 per year. But didn't somebody say there was about 60 of them signed up, or did I just make that figure up? I think 400 is way high. I don't think there's anywhere near that many signed up, but I don't know the numbers off the top of my head. It's a mood point anyway, there's a motion on the floor, let's see what happens there. Any further comments before we call for the vote? motion has been made that we accept the dental program as presented it has been

[2:57:58] seconded all in favor please say aye aye any opposed nay nay let's have a shorthand for eyes that's 1 2 3 4 5 ayes pass 5 2 on that all right let's move on to the next one please matter all right now we're talking about the employee assistance program there were six carriers that responded to the program and the committee was looking at consideration of the following so it was not just the rates but again the network and the scope of services and also the educational hours there's hours that are built into those programs to allow for educational opportunities for the city to be able to provide to employees. The recommendation was to remain with current carrier it had the lowest rate and actually had a five percent reduction to current it had the appropriate services and you do utilize those benefits does include 26 educational hours for individuals or for the city. They had a commitment to increase their provider recruitment. That was another consideration for the committee just to make sure that they had enough folks in the network to be able to everyone have a chance to utilize and had a three-year rate guarantee. So again these are the rates that have that are current. The current rates are $1.32, proposed rates are $1.25, so again that's some slight decrease which is equals about $800, almost about $900 annually. Is there any questions on the EAP program? Council public comment on the AP somebody give me a move to approve this presented second got a motion of got a second if no further consideration all in favor please say aye put a 7-0 on that one move on please ma'am flexible spending accounts current provider is health smart they did not respond to the RFP There were seven providers that quoted consideration of the committee included rates, of course.

[2:59:58] The ease of debit card use and flexible spending accounts, there's been some frustration with the current that they want to make sure that they had some ease of card use and then additional vendor benefits. Committee recommendation was to move to task. They had the lowest rate, a 16% increase to current, which equates to a little over $1,200. They had appropriate services, a high level of auto adjudication, which means when they use the card. It swipes through and it approves it. Employer float of medical flexible spending care dollars, which basically means that at the beginning of the year, all the money is already there for the city employees to use and they can use it and the city doesn't have to true up every month depending on what the utilization is, which helps a lot with administration pieces and then again a three-year-rate guarantee. Is it this something that we started new last year, year before? This has been around for a bit of time. The current rates are $3 for the administration fee, and the fee would go up to $3.50, sorry, the increase was about $6,000. The debit card fee is included as well. Oftentimes they charge a dollar per debit card that's mutilized, sorry, the estimated cost is about $800. Is there any additional questions on the FSA? Council? No. Let me just, I'm seeing some faces that maybe not know what the flexible spending account is. So would you like me to describe what that is for folks? You know what that is? Okay well it's it's just where employees that have either dependent care charges or they have medical expenses during the year. They can elect to have that money come out of their check on a pre-tax basis and it goes into this flexible spending account for them and then they get a debit card So that when they go to the doctor and have a copay, they use the debit card and it comes out of their pre-tax dollars So this isn't something that the employees pay for this is a benefit that we offer and the city pays for that coverage for the employees

[3:02:03] Thank you Lisa. Let me ask is there a max on that? Yes, there is Yeah, twenty five hundred dollars for the medical expenses Do I have a motion for approval from Don as presented? Do I have a second? I'll second that. Do I have a second? Do I have further comment on this issue? Motion has been made to accept the FSA charge as presented all in favor please say aye. Opposed nay? Put a 7-0-1 that one please ma'am. Okay. And then the last piece was voluntary benefits and voluntary benefits are things along the lines of cancer products, critical illness, whole life products. There were 10 carriers that responded to those types of benefits. And the committee was looking at, again, the products that were being offered, benefits, customer service, and then the overall rates for those products. The committee didn't, currently, you have benefits through AFLAC. The committee doesn't have administrative or, there's no administrative issues from HR or the committee that they've seen. We've not had any billing issues, and the benefits are currently fulfilling employee needs. So at this point, they did not recommend changing the voluntary preventative benefits provider at this time. We need to vote on that. Absolutely. As presented. Okay. Marty, seconds. Charlotte made the motion. Further discussion? Public input? All in favor please say aye. Aye. Opposed nay. Put a say but no one that one please, ma'am. Perfect. And I'm going I'm going to pass over to Jared Wills to talk about the medical and the cobra marketing analysis. Thank you, ma'am. Thank you. Afternoon, Jared Wills, Holmes Murphy, and Associates. I'm going to walk you through the, oh, you know what, do you want to do the cobra real quick? You want me to just go through the cobra? Okay. So, there's two items here, one is cobra and medical, and we bundled those two together.

[3:04:03] You'll see from the recommendation at the end is to leave the cobra administration with the medical carrier. So here basically received seven quotes, you know, historically low cover participation, you know, administrative efficiencies, we're looking at billing and eligibility requirements. We need to make sure that the rates are appropriate, that you're getting sound reporting, you know, back to the city for administration of those benefits. Oops, I guess that's pretty much that's there. At the very bottom we've got some fine print. The cover costs are based on, you know, qualifying events, so in essence when you have people that separate from active participation on your benefits. You need to offer them continuation, if you will, that's really what the COBRA benefits are. And so traditionally, you can carve that out as a separate vendor or you can leave that with the medical provider. You currently have it bundled together with that today. So that will ultimately end up being the recommendation there. So on the medical side. So we'll walk you through kind of what some of the high level asks were, walk you through the process that we performed in doing the analysis, talk about some of those, some of the cost projections that we have there and ultimately get to a recommendation. So with there, the high level asks were that we wanted to match the benefits as closely as we possibly could. So, you know, currently you're with Atna. As you know, there's an alignment with community that does not include the Shannon as a preferred in network facility. So we wanted to make sure first and foremost that the benefit designs were close. And so with that, you know, if you're, for instance, going to have Blue Cross Blue Shield as an administrator or Web or TPA or any other third party for that matter, administer those benefits. Sometimes they have what I'll call limitations within their systems where they can't administer your benefit exactly the same way, but maybe a little bit differently. So kind of as a baseline, we said we're not trying to modify the benefits, what does that look like? And then at the end of the process, if we looked at the financials or we looked at the benefit offerings and decided to make some modifications at that point in time, we could, at this point in time, we're not looking at modifying any of those benefit designs at this point in time. So we want to look at the most comprehensive access

[3:06:03] to providers in the San Angelo marketplace. As you know, three years ago, prior to going with at-end community, you had access to those providers through Blue Cross Blue Shield. It really came down to predominantly a financial decision to go with that alignment strategy. So I'll kind of walk you through what the offers look like this year. We want to make sure that they had all the other stuff that goes with it. So the billing, the administration, the reporting, the customer service, the member services to the employees, what the, in essence, what does it look and feel like to the employee, and then also what does it look and feel like as a city offering these benefits to the employee. So we want to make sure that we're checking all those boxes and understanding what the pros and the cons were there. And then we want to make sure that we had partners that were willing to partner with the city and achieve common goals. So the landscape as it sits today, it was a lot different three years ago, and chances are it's going to look a lot different three years from now to potentially, changing markets, changing dynamics, changing benefit offerings. You have in other markets, you have a lot of hospitals and physicians that are having more integrated models and coming up with creative pricing structures. So we constantly monitor those things and so we wanted to make sure that whoever we selected would have that flexibility to grow with the changing market within the healthcare landscape. So this is a profile I already touched on a couple of these, you're currently self-funded with Etna Community. We were looking at medical, pharmacy, and administration. There's a third component that's not listed there, which is the risk component, which is stop loss, so that's kind of embedded in the administrative component. This is a January 1, 2015 effective date. So that's how the benefits have historically run, and we're proposing to keep that there as well. As I've already alluded to, there's heavy emphasis on local provider engagement. So what I mean, what is there? What does it look like not only financially, but the willingness to work, and what what would those rules of engagement look like. So what you ended up with is you ended up with three carriers that responded. You had Etna that was offering their network alongside the community direct contract. You had Blue Cross Blue Shield who you've been within the past and then you had a web TPA in collaboration

[3:08:03] with Shannon Medical Center, put an offer there on the table. So we went through the process of not only receiving those quotes and analyzing those at least initially. And I'll walk you through kind of what some of the financial analysis looked like. And in essence, we went through, you know, back and forth of you all to basically come up with Best and Final. So this is really kind of a slide that just talks about, you know, who those carriers were, who the two local providers were, I've already alluded to those. The last bullet is really the one about that alignment strategy. So currently you have, you know, Etna and Alignment with Community and Web TPA with Shannon, obviously Blue Cross is bringing its own network to the table. So we did have some questions about that. You know, the willingness of us Shannon to work with an Etna and Etna to work with a Shannon. I mean, so we were asking some of those through the vetting out process to talk, you know, so we can come back and basically inform you about, you know, what the willingness was by each of those, not only the carriers, but by the providers and, you know, again, what that would look like at the end of the day. So this is really just kind of a color grid summary, if you will, of kind of the analysis that we ended up performing. The legend in the upper right hand corner just talks about green as it was favorable, not met market standards but exceeded market standards less favorable doesn't mean it's not favorable it just means it's less favorable than ideal if you will and then the least favorable is in red so if you look at the grid kind of down the left hand side we talked about quality we want to make sure that you know it was a good high quality in those other areas like the billing and the reporting and the services that are offered collectively all the cares ended up getting greens across the board on local access Blue Cross was the only one that got a green because they offer both local facilities in their offering. Each of the other ones with ethnic community or the WebTPA Shannon had exclusivity that was there. It's not to say that either facility, I guess I'll just stop there for a moment. Each of them offered exclusive and non-exclusive rates. What that basically means in layman's terms is, I will give you this pricing, it's preferred pricing, but it does not include the other folks.

[3:10:05] Or non-exclusive says, I will allow you to have access to the other facility, but it's not as preferred a pricing as otherwise would have expected. So in there, what I'm really referencing to here is on those exclusive offers, they were really aligned one way or the other, so that's where the yellow comes into play there. Regional and national access, all cares across the board had access to facilities, so you have kids away at college, you have folks that are traveling on vacation, want to make sure that there's a good comprehensive robust network to take care of those folks as well. from references accountability and approach. Just how do they engage with the city? What does that look and feel like to the employee? Really didn't see any deficiencies across the board there either. So we ended up giving everybody greens there on the affordability and I will talk about the math on this in a second. Blue Cross Blue Shield ended up with a red. You ended up with a yellow on the Web TPA Shannon and a green on the atna. The red is just means that out of the three they were in third place. It doesn't mean that they were terrible. It just means that they were not as financially competitive as the other two offers that were there. Question. So why don't you have a breakdown like that on each line? I mean, quality. They're all green. Why don't you have a yellow and a red? Did you not? So based upon not only industry standards, but standards that we would expect and dialogue that we've had with the city and the services that you've come to expect and demand of those partnerships with those carriers, We said, can you meet or exceed that level of engagement for us? And if they were able to do so, they ended up getting a green. If they were unable to do so, they would have gotten a yellow, or potentially a red. So the medical market analysis on the Etna community. It is the current city co-sponsored arrangement since 2012. They had a good, strong conference of offering.

[3:12:05] It does still exclude Shannon Medical Center. So the benefit design and how it's structured today is what's being proposed. Financial performance has been favorable for the city. If you remember, three years ago, we stood before you and said, there's a lot of money on the table here that we can potentially garner. It will require disruption. You had employees that had to change primary care physicians, not having access to the other provider in town. We understood what those were. And when we presented that to you, financials were at least a big part of that decision. and that performance has yielded favorably and as we had projected in the past. On Blue Cross Blue Shield, they were the partner prior to making that change. They are a good, strong, reputable organization. They are in lots of municipalities across the state of Texas. It's just based upon the two exclusive offers that were on the table by both Shannon and community. Price-wise was too expensive. Same thing holds true for what I call that non-exclusive offering. They were so much more expensive that what we really ended up doing is narrowing our focus, if you will, on what those exclusive offers look like, relatively across Blue Shield, even though they got a green, if you will, from having market access. But that's the Blue Cross piece. And on the Web TPA and Shannon, they, too, had a good, strong, comprehensive offering. They can offer all the administrative services that we want, comprehensive access, to providers in the marketplace. It conversely excludes community from that offering and the exclusive arrangement. So, and I put a bullet point in there about customized and personalized approach, not that you don't get that from Atna. Atna is a big large national insurance carrier. Web TPA is in a traditional sense, a large regional and sometimes, depending on where their clientele are, a national third party administrator. You typically get a higher level of customization and touch and feel in that type of an environment than you would from a traditional, you know, what I call large care, united at in a signal,

[3:14:07] you know, blue cross blue shield. So that's why I wanted to point that out. So when we started looking at the comparisons, what we did is we wanted to use your actual experience here at the city. So as opposed to, you know, a lot of times if you're just asking for responses from the marketplace, you say, well, tell me what the discounts are locally and show me what this is and show me what that is. And then you try to, you know, put all the pieces together and look at things apples to apples It becomes a little bit cumbersome, but it is fairly standard to have to go through that process. In this particular instance, what we were able to do is use the actual experience that had been from your employees and their dependents and the retirees and say, this is what it looked like. And this is under the current arrangement that we have with Etna and Community. If we were to have received these quotes, so we received new offers from Community, new offers from Shannon and said, have we run these claims against these new contracts? What would that have looked like? So we can understand what the adjustments are. So that's really kind of where we started. We had originally projected your cost in the 2015 year, assuming no change in plan design and administrative partners. In this case, that's Etna in your provider alignment, which in this case is focused on community. So that was kind of our baseline. If you did nothing, you have trend and you have healthcare reform costs and other things that come in the equation. What does that look like next year? So that would just be a normal renewal that we've done, you know, if you will in the past several years under this arrangement. So we ran a number of scenarios and as I've already alluded to, we kind of focused in on those exclusive arrangements. And then we also used third-party data sources to help validate the math. So it always helps to have second sets of eyes to make sure that when we look into this thing correctly and you know really, is this really kind of what the numbers mean. So, in addition to that, the things that we ended up breaking down from that claims date is we want to know what type of services are being rendered. You know, inpatient versus outpatient versus physician and lab and x-ray. So the kinds of services you use are important.

[3:16:11] Where those services are being rendered. One of the things that was fairly pronounced when we made the move to Blue Cross some six, seven, eight years ago was that you had a significant portion of your claims, the claim dollars, not utilization, but the dollars that were going outside of the San Angelo community. And so it was important to make sure that we had a network that helped support deep discounts in those areas. But we also really want to make sure we garnered the best we could here locally. So where you have those services rendered is important. How often those services are being rendered. So if you think about the claim spend, I mean right now the city gets a check register every week and says, we've processed so many claims, we have to write those out the door. Well, that's really a function of what's the price every time somebody gets a service rendered, and how often are they getting services rendered? It means a fairly simple story. So we wanted to understand what was happening there. What the cost and frequency of those services were, and then lastly, what the severity of those services were. So when I talk about severity, to explain that, it's pretty easy to focus on what they call of a large claimants or the high cost claimants, those individuals that are $100,000 and above. Well, for a group of your size, we'll say, well, on average, a group of your size, given where you're at, should have so many of those, and that all goes into the financial models. Some years they're a little higher, some years they're a little bit lower. But what we don't want to lose focus on as well is what's the frequency of the individuals that are hitting claims between $5,000 and $100,000. So your risk contracts, they don't reimburse you anything for those, but those larger claims and the frequency of those can add up in a hurry. So we wanted to make sure that we were looking at the severity of the claim utilization there as well. So other considerations. So as we were having conversations with, you know, in essence, you know, focusing on the Atna community and the Web TPA, Shannon dialogue, one of the pieces that came up through discussion was that you know community currently administers the clinic on behalf of the

[3:18:11] city and that the offer as they had had it on the table obviously is expiring but the offer that they have on the table was that they would retain administration of that clinic for the city so obviously the natural question is well what happens if you know right me so what happens your rates well those rates then go up fairly significantly so they say I'll give you a great discount let me continue to manage the clinic but if you take the clinic away from me I can't give you as good a deal. So that was one of the variables for consideration. Another piece that has come up, and I think it's been addressed in the past to various council members, is that, you know, is when you matched up the provider networks. I mean, they're not going to be 100 percent matched enough, but under the current arrangement, there are some specialties that have been sore spots for lack of a better term for some employees. Neurosurgery, you know, is an example. So as opposed to saying, I can fill that whole for the city maybe as to ease a little bit of that pain is maybe we can put in in essence some sort of subsidy for travel for individuals that have to travel outside the San Angelo marketplace for distances as far as you know Dallas Fort Worth San Antonio etc. So they they added that which is a different you know addition to what was offered in the past to kind of help ease that burden a little bit but it you know cost paid is paid it still exists so that's what's there. So this is a quick snapshot of your budget and so I won't read the top end piece but you know for fiscal year 1415 it was originally set at five million five hundred sixty thousand dollars with an adjustment of fourteen percent was the ask. I believe that that was ratified so the adjusted 1415 budget was six million three hundred and thirty eight thousand dollars and change. So that's a number that you guys reconcile internally, right? So that's, and for that just so that if you're looking at how to match that up to whatever's internally, you know, this is again focusing on not the dental and the vision and all these other stuff, these

[3:20:15] other benefits. This is truly just focusing on the cost associated with the medical plan, which includes the pharmacy, the administration and stop loss. Okay. So this is a summary of What's there? So when we reran all the math and kicked it out, we said, you know, your adjusted fiscal year, 1415 budget is 6,338,000. The ATNA community proposal that's there, we had already anticipated a rate adjustment. This goes back to, if you didn't do anything, because that's who your current partner is, what does that look like next year? We had already anticipated that there would be a rate adjustment, meaning that they weren't going to hold the rates where they were, there was going to be some sort of increase. We already built that into the model. The number that we were projecting at that point in time was the $6,245,000, which is a little bit less than what you guys ratified. I keep saying ratified, it may not be the right term, but whatever you adopted as your budget. And then on the Web TPA piece, again, there's differences, all sorts of differences in there. For instance, Web TPA administration is quite a bit cheaper than administration from at now. Stop loss is a little bit cheaper. Claims cost on a Shannon is more expensive than community. Claims cost that happen are outside of San Angelo. So for the claims that go to Dallas and elsewhere, we had to do a comparison of what that offering looked like and what that network could yield compared to what atna has done. And all of that makes into the final analysis, if you will, that showed that the web TPA Shannon cost was increasing, would increase the overall cost to the city of $6,964,000. So to kind of extrapolate that, if you will, into how that impacts an employee. So if you think about it from, if we did nothing, that's kind of what that universe is. If there's additional cost, knowing that access is on the forefront of everybody's mind.

[3:22:17] How do we gain access back potentially to a Shannon? What would that be to the city? So in order to make the city whole, saying if the employee chose to go to a community, I'm just saying a hypothetical world, or they wanted to choose to go to Shannon, if Shannon was more expensive, they should pay the difference in the cost. And so what I'm about to show you in the next three slides is just an illustration of what that impact might be to the employees. And so you have three plan designs today. You have a low, medium, and a high plan. There was already an adjustment. Part of that 14% increase is illustrated at the top. We went from an employee or a city funding increase from $357 in change to just over $402. Then the remainder of whatever that cost is goes to the employee. And so on the low plan, what we've illustrated down the left-hand side is the employees or the retiree only, those that carry spouses, those that carry a child or children or those that have at least a spouse and at least a child, they can have multiple children and that's the family tier. So under the current arrangement, you can see what those payroll deductions look like today on a monthly basis. The community proposed, well, we'd already anticipated that increase, and so that's why you don't see a change in those numbers. That additional cost between those on the prior slide, if you then allocated that proportionately or appropriately to all the employees, this is what the Shannon proposed increase to employ payroll deductions might look like. And so you can see for an employee only it goes up from $13.20 to $20.96 all the way down to family coverage of $518 to an increase of $823. If you did the same exercise for the medium plan, I won't walk you through all the detail, but in essence you can see there that for instance an employee only would increase its payroll deductions from 125.50 to 199.31 and on the family would be 782 I'm sorry to 1241 dollars and then on the high plan it would increase the employee only

[3:24:20] from $200 in change to just over $318 a month and on the family plan would increase from 957.86 to 1521 so that's kind of that difference in the math applied to the employee only and then it rolls into kind of where the recommendation goes. So you had two really good offers on the table and obviously I'm we're open for discussion I can help fill you in on what those other rules of engagement might look like because we did offer say well what happens if you offer two plans and so I'd be more than happy to address those questions but in essence you had Etna Community and the WebTPA Shannon Aligned offering at this point in time from a financial perspective absent of the other pieces if you just stayed with that community for the 2015-18 plan years it did offer kind of a best overall value the value piece tie that to numbers financial the rest of it mean good solid value that's there they both offered both at nine community offered three-year contracts so I know that you have to approve in one-year increments but in essence it has rate caps in subsequent years or guarantees not to increase a certain amount in subsequent years. And then obviously we're going to continue to monitor the plan performance to make sure that it continues to yield the same kind of financial benefit that you have been able to realize at least in the last three knowing that there was pain with that shift and understanding desire of possibly trying to gain access elsewhere. But that piece of it there. I mean financially there's a lot of dollars to discuss and then as I mentioned earlier on the Cobra administration would be to leave that with in this case, you know, at as the administrator. So that really kind of concludes the Cobra Medical and I'll open it up to any and all questions. Who won't start? Just give me, I think it's a shame that a city of size of San Angel can't use both hospitals. Never have understood that, never will. Just

[3:26:24] Just give me an idea of what Blue Cross was to get so that we could use both hospitals. About $900,000 more. What is that per month per employee? Well, if we go back and pull my calculator out, but you're talking about a delta right now about $700,000 and change, right? So at $900,000, what is that? That's $9.8 million, and that's on an exclusive contract. So when I say a million, 900,000, it's above and beyond that number, the 6964 number. So in essence, you're talking about a million seven, more in expense, so a million seven against your $6.3 million dollar budget. That's a lot. A lot of the net, roughly, I think we recall something about a 33% increase or something with Blue Cross, and so the numbers you just quoted would be about twice again, a little more than twice again, the 9.8% increase. that about right. Roughly works out. Thank you for for Blue Cross. Have any comments from council? I need to open it up to the public. The biggest thing is what you know we can do where they can go to both hospitals but I don't think that not any of them can afford it. We're not at 33% more. So I mean it's just that's what makes it you know it's not doable. You know I truly truly understand patients people, employees, whatever you want to call us, who have relationships with physicians 25, 30 years. And that comfort zone, whether it be physical or mental, is important. But when it comes right down to it, it's if we opened it up, it would cost all of the employees, not those that just choose to go to a

[3:28:27] a different facility, more money. And that bothers me. They can't afford that kind of increase. We can't afford that kind of increase. I think as much as everybody's wanted choice for the employees, it doesn't mean in what you're saying is they're not willing to pay for it. And when it comes down to they're making the same decision that we do, they don't want to pay for it. Well, that's a lot of extra money for choice. I'm like the mayor. I wish I wish in the end we could have I wish we could afford choice. I really thought this time we would have choice. I hope our hospitals could work together to give us choice. But obviously, they can't. I'm gonna open it up for public comment. Just a minute, Mr. Horner. Any further council comment before we open it up? Public comment, come ahead, Mr. Horner. I was curious in the comparisons of Donna, the of the beds that we presented, you're comparing Blue Cross being an open network, but yet we submitted beds for exclusive and non-exclusive. So was there any comparative of those beds done by both hospitals on being non-exclusive providers? Who's gonna answer that, Lisa? Or Jared? Yeah, sure. Yeah, thanks. Yeah, the answer's yes. I mean, right, you gotta look at everything. So we tried to think in creative ways about can you offer your employee choice at time of open enrollment, maybe one's aligned with Shannon, the other one's aligned elsewhere. What happens is when you start getting into those variables, all the rates go up.

[3:30:28] They're not going to hold. So in your current universe today, you've got 100% of all your lives, in essence, locally going to community not Shannon. So to lose that access or lose that steerage, it's going to cost a little bit. So the answer is yes. We did do that, and hence, ultimately, whenever we look at the Blue Cross, Open Access, and the two non-exclusive offers, and the rules of engagement that were associated with that, we quickly focused in on the two exclusive options. So. Further public comment? I would just like to address what we call a triple A. Number one is access, and then the patient experience, quality, and then affordability undoubtedly based and analysis, Janet did not do well in affordability. But today, we have for your retirees cardiovascular surgeons that can do heart surgery in this town. Community is one of the pay their expenses to go somewhere else to take our tax dollars to another community to have those heart surgery procedures, bowel replacements, bypass or whatever. Same thing with neurosurgery. We had those specialists on call 24-7 at our hospital. So today, what we were given when we did this bed, Shannon actually got paid more than inpatient dollars in community hospital under your health plan in 2013, because that hospital wasn't able to provide all those services. We had ENT cases, urology cases, sent from that emergency department to hours to provide care, because they did not have the specialties on call. We have those specialties. They're offering to pay for those employees years to go out of town, take our tax dollars, and get those services. As a matter of fact, the numbers that I see on the provider's side, 43% of the dollars in your health plan in 2013 were paid outside of St. Angelo. Can you say that again, please?

[3:32:32] The numbers we were provided when we submitted the bid of the inpatient and outpatient spend for hospital care, 43% was spent outside of San Angelo. 24% at Shannon, 32% at community. So they're offering a lower cost, it appears, but they're not offering access. And what quality they're gonna get when they go out of town to providers that we don't know. And do your retirees want to travel with their families and be in a different community for five or six days for heart surgery, bowel replacements, neurosurgery. And I think, again, one of the reasons we have more spend from you at our hospital, we're out of network. I say, how y'all designed it. So we're getting paid full charges for those services. And we'll continue if those patients come to RED to provide those services. But I would hope there's a way where you don't want to spend 42% of your health care dollars and our tax dollars and other communities, and those services can be provided here and to assure high quality health care for all of our community stays in San Angelo. Because any patient needing cardiovascular surgery and neurosurgery, our competitor will not get it at that hospital. They will get it at Shannon. And there's a council won't economic development. I think the oil companies won't promise services. We provide those, the general surgeons, promise surgeons, 24-7. So I think there's a lot of things to consider around access when you think about the cost. Sometimes cheap is what you get. Thank you, Brian. I have a question. I have a question. Question. And it may be for Lisa, it could be for Michael,

[3:34:33] it could be for Mr. Horner. Of that 43% that you state has paid, of the dollars that are spent but how many patients does that equate to the number of employees that we have that's my curiosity because with this affects all of the employees so how many patients what percentage is the number of patients out of all of the employed employees of that 43% so so I don't have the exact number off the top of my head but prior to the move to the to the at net community align if you for those that were here if you can recall 40% of your dollars were going outside when you had access to all the hospitals here in town and that was a big part of the evaluation process as well so not the labor overall the details about you know dollar spent here there in and out I mean literally if it was a 2013 dollar that was spent we were running that up against our analysis. So, I mean, we anticipated based upon your current plan design that you do have dollars that go to Shannon at non-contractual rates. And so, you know, over the course of that time, as you can imagine, hey, can we maybe work something out? Well, their willingness is pretty low because you cut them out of all the other medical stuff. Totally get that. So, but that was part of the analysis as well to understand what that looks like. Am I wrong to assume that neurological and cardiovascular are the more expensive of our normal care? So say we've got 950 employees that are insured. I'm just throwing out that because I don't know what it is. But of that 950, say 25, had to have the cardiovascular or neurological that would run those numbers up. But that would be a fair evaluation. So just classifying the types of services you are correct. I mean, those are typically more expensive procedures. I mean, anything on the specialist side versus, you know, traditional primary care. And that is, in essence, what is happening today under your current community at an arrangement.

[3:36:41] If we chose to go with the Web TPA over at now, what would happen to our clinic? So the, well, it's a valid question. So, the offer from community was to, you know, hold their rates in the proposal, and I think there's some folks here that may be able to address that, but part of that holding of their rates was holding on to the clinic. So if the clinic were to disappear, if you will, it disappeared from management on the community side. My assumption, and maybe Mr. Horner can address this as well, is that they would want to pick that up. However, I'll kind of tap the breaks there on the clinic piece. the clinic is up for evaluation or reevaluation in four or five months. I mean, it's already heading down a path of what's working, what's not working, how do we improve the clinic, how do we utilize it more efficiently, effectively, et cetera. So that is all forthcoming. How that impacts the rates specifically would be in their court. And then I can run the math for you. Well, I'd hate to go up on our premiums to go with Shannon and then lose our clinic. Why don't the evaluation come together with the clinic and the right. Our average employees, though, can't afford $100 extra a month. I mean, they just can't do it. I know. And I understand. I would love to go with you guys, but $100 extra dollars. That's a killer. We had a retiree just a few minutes ago that was upset about the $5. Can you imagine $100? It's not possible. Do I have further public comment on this? Anybody else want to weigh in? We did submit a bid on the City Clinic. That was part of the RFP process. How that plays into the consideration of the medical plan would be a interest to me because we have three urgent care centers that will be open when the plan begins.

[3:38:41] We offered those services as it would be in your clinic at these three urgent care clinics seven days a week seven eight to ten P again we're trying to value the access so I don't know that decision I don't work that but I know that when we did the RFP we were asked to bet on that as well as wellness components and so I don't know where all those fit in as we look at the total cost because it appears one area we definitely fell short but how did we come out in analysis on the city clinic or the wellness piece, all those threes together, because those all are gonna help with your overall healthcare cost. Thank you, Brian. Yes, ma'am. Is he gonna get an answer? My question is for Lisa. In the committee meeting that were held with the various employees and retirees that was in this group to make the recommendation that we're receiving today, Was there any discussion about a lot of disgruntled over what they're getting at community? Did you hear any of that? I'm just asking. From the committee? Yes. No ma'am. Excuse me. The committee was very interested in what the mayor had said back during the budget process, that he was hoping that we would have a plan that would offer something for both hospitals. The committee was surprised by the numbers and indicated that it seemed difficult for us to be able to accept the Shannon program based on the costs. But I will tell you, three years ago, when we went with this plan, we did have a lot of animosity. Remember 70% of our employees were seeing doctors out of Shannon

[3:40:43] had to change their physicians. In the last two years or so, that has fallen off as being something that they've come to us about anyway. They employees and retirees recognize that this is what we have and this is what we're going to deal with. But I haven't heard a tremendous amount of disgruntled about physician choices or anything like that. We've talked about network deficiencies, where there have been physicians that are missing and different specialties, excuse me, we have employees that have to travel out of town to get coverage because of the fact that we didn't send people to Shannon once we didn't experience any kind of savings for sending them there. So outside of that, it's probably been a good year and a half to almost two years since we we've heard any discussion about it. I mean, you get in a claim here or there that's got a problem, but it's not directly related. He answered my question. Thank you. Yes, ma'am. Are we going to answer Mr. Horner's questions? I mean, I understand that this is a significant contract. It affects a lot of people, and so since they are just now seeing the information for the first time, I would like for him to understand certainly how those decisions were made. Certainly. I think we were trying to decide who was going to get up and answer the question. When we went out to bid with this from the very beginning, we said that whoever would get the medical plan, you know, the best world would be for them to have the clinic as well. But because it was being bid out to anybody, if a Blue Cross were to come in to us and get the bid, then the Blue Cross isn't going to run our clinic. So we would re-bid the clinic separately and that was the thought. The clinic is under contract right now with community.

[3:42:43] It expires in April of 2015. And so our intention has been, depending how the medical went, if one of the hospitals got the bid for the medical, that they would get the clinic as well. So that has been how we've focused on that. Does that answer the question? So if Web TPA gets this at their 9.8% increase, they would also take care of our clinic. that is correct and when the clinic in April when that contract expires with community it would then be a new contract with Shanna. But if community gets it with Enna then at a one point something percent less they would have the clinic and that would be for the next three years. We would still have to negotiate a contract in April to go for the next three years. So they could go up on our prices there. I don't know how that would work. I don't know. But we've got some specific issues that we've had with the clinic that we want to recommend as changes for the next contract, whoever it's with. So what you're saying is you could be coming back in April with more price increases regardless of who we go with. For the clinic, not with the insurance. Correct. So this is quite a quandary. So if we didn't bid them together necessarily there's no way that that provider could change for the clinic. I mean you're essentially tying them together even though you don't have a price for the clinic operation right now. That's correct until April. I mean we're under current contract we couldn't change anything with the clinic until the April contract was up. So regardless of who would get this bid it couldn't come in for the clinic until April. So there's no way the clinic could be could have a different operator than our before April that's correct primary healthcare provider that's correct so let's say

[3:44:44] Blue Cross won the one the award of the bid community would continue to run the clinic until April we would go out to bid probably in January or February to see who would run the clinic from that point but if you if you think about a medical provider let's say between the two sole provider options you wouldn't have one operating the medical and one operating the clinic because they would work against each other I don't see how that would work but yet they're not tied together just simply because of some sort of calendar at this point I mean the April date is different from the October January implementation date so no way in the future to correct that. Oh yeah absolutely there is but the reason it wound up it used to be January but then we had a retirement that happened in January and we had nobody to run it so that was when we went out to bid you know three years ago. So certainly we can get it on the same time frame and have them January through December just like any other year. I know that right now we're making a recommendation but I have some reservations about the service that we've had previously. My own experience has been that if I have gone to the clinics on the weekends that they haven't been full service as they were promised to be and so I don't know how we go forward but to make sure that that that doesn't cost me or the city more money than the service that was originally discussed and planned for? Yeah, I guess what I was just going to add what I was whispering at least this year about is that going through this process, we had to somewhat include the clinic because it impacts your medical pricing so it was there. We know that the contract is off cycle. We can definitely pull that back on cycle with the medical plan so it's consistent. But the other thing I was just going to point out is that through the evaluation process,

[3:46:47] We probably have customers with probably a couple of dozen customers with clinics in various forms and fashions. If you remember, you used to have the clinic in-house, you used to manage and operate that. Obviously you found a third party, in this case it happens to be a community. Yes, Shannon has those capabilities as well, but through that process, there's a number of options available in the marketplace that are what I call turnkey third-party solutions, where it's a third party managing the clinic, they hire and staff the physicians on your behalf and you pay them a fee. So I guess all I was mentioning there is that it doesn't necessarily have to be thinking from a mindset that it's either community or Shannon, it could be community Shannon in-house or the universe of other options. What did the committee recommend on this? Oh, I don't know, I wasn't there. But never that one. The committee recommended continuing with the ethnic community program. Yeah. And this was the majority or all of them or what? I would say 100%. Yes, Lisa. Yes. I'm sorry. Now, exactly how many years we've been on this program? Three years. Okay. And as of this December, it'll be three complete years. And what was the overall rate increase for those three years? Zero. Okay. For the ear-tugging employees and retirees? Yes. Yes, they had zero increase in the premiums over the course of those three years. Okay. I hoped we could get this together at both hospitals, but at the increase at Blue Cross, I don't see how that can happen. So I think we've got two choices. What is, Brian? Well, my God has made it to help me, but I understood the RFP in looking here on 29A and says, proposals for a clinic. When we submitted our prices, we assumed a cost of a clinic. And all I'm asking is, when we did our medical plan, we were looking at the cost of running a clinic.

[3:48:48] To the prices we're looking at today, where we, this happened this three years ago, we had to price in there of the clinic, I'm not sure it got included, maybe we're still higher than community on running the clinic. But my understanding we responded to the RFP, it was for the medical, the clinic, and the health and wellness. And I would just like to encourage the council to make a decision, and if I understand the bidding process and what our RFP included, to include all those together, as opposed to say, well, yeah, Shannon whilst on the medical plan, obviously we did, but did we offer any advantages to make up some of that cost related to running the clinic and the wellness? And that's what I'm asking. I understand the contract doesn't expire for community gentle April and May, but am I wrong that the RFP included the proposal the clinic. So you're saying Brian that your proposal and your prices are for three years including the clinic, the wellness, and the insurance, everything. It's correct. Total package. I thought that's what the RFP was for. And I would like to know if communities be included the same thing. Hi Jeremy Ronnie. Brian's correct. We thought the same thing. We went through the RFP process that it did include the clinic bit as well and so that's how we submitted so you're working the same thing you were insurance clinic and wellness absolutely okay that's correct thank you sir wasn't girl we got two choices here I move that we accept that as presented I've just well I've got the RFP I just wanted to read it to you okay the objective city of San Angel is seeking proposals from organizations here and referred to as vendor for the following health and prescription drug plan options health RX clinic dental FSA, EAP, voluntary benefits, and COBRA administration plans.

[3:50:51] A, self-funded, this is A, self-funded group health program, B, self-funded group prescription drug program, C, the clinic will be run through its current provider until May 2015. Health responses must include a clinic, D, the city will require health carriers to provide a wellness allowance, E, the city will require health carriers to provide a wellness coordinator. So both of them have been the same things, hospital, insurance, clinic, wellness. Very well. I think you started something right. Do we have any further public comment? I saw Candy coming up. Did the numbers we were shown include those three components? Yes, sir. Both yours and community. They both include the same. But they're not shown in the scoring is what he's looking for. He doesn't see how he compares in the scoring. We were comparing medical spend. You don't think of medical spend in a clinic is the same way. OK. Candy, did you have something you wanted to say, girl? I think they would let her. Hey, Candy. Yes, sir, Mr. Mayor. Candy Poole. I am a recipient for this insurance. And I have waited since January 1, 2012 for this council to go back to allowing choice, if nothing else. I hate, and that's a hard word, but I hate the Etna plan. I do not enjoy the community facilities, doctors, or otherwise. I had to order my own blood panels because I couldn't get a doctor to do it. I am staying away from a foot surgery waiting to go back to Shannon because I do not want to do it at community. Having said all that, because that's all personal, I understand the cost difference.

[3:52:52] If there was an opportunity for me to be able to pay the difference, make a choice, have both, I would choose the higher just because that's what I would rather do. I understand there would be many employees, retirees who couldn't, as Rodney said, do that $100 extra a month and I understand that but if there was any way, any way possible that choice could be given, that's what I would ask you to try to do and I know that's what you've tried to do and it's hard on those that have been since they were six years old at Shannon to go somewhere they don't want to go. Thank you. No way to do that, is there, Lisa? They were exclusive beds on the RFP. We're going to go with Shannon and we're going to go with community. our choices. What were you starting to say? I move that we accept the proposal, the recommendation on the proposal as presented for Edna. Yes. That's the recommendation. I do have a motion to accept Edna. I do have a second. Russell, do you have something you want to say on this sir? Mayor? Yes sir. The only thing I wanted to add is, you know, we're talking about Cobra here all day long, but never has HMO or PPO been mentioned, so I'm confused on which route. They're offering or are they offering or, you don't answer that one? It's a PPO offering. PPO, correct. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Do you have a motion on the floor to accept the proposal of Edna? has been seconded. It's got to be voted on. I've called for public comment. This is the last chance. If anybody else wants to speak up on this, this is your opportunity. Anybody

[3:54:52] else from council want to say anything? I want clarity on the clinic again. Come January or February, whenever you go out again and bid for the clinic, it will be communities. It's part of the package. Call for the vote. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed nay? Put a several on it, please, ma'am. And I believe I need five or three. Oh, we're not through. We've already voted. Oh, no, you can be on the votes. This is just the, really it's just to let you know that we're going to be planning our open enrollment for all of our benefits now that we've completed this process. It'll probably happen in the first couple of weeks of November and then we are currently marketing the stop loss and our post 65 retiree benefits. So we'll be coming back to you before the end of the year with those two benefits. Thank you. Thank you very much. Now I'd like to take about five or ten minutes. Three oh seven Alicia. It's three twenty four let's get this started again. It has been asked because Vince needs to catch you. Vince needs to catch a train or a plane or something out of here. He's asked that we pulled number 39 up that is the right number Michael pull number 39 up so that he can make his presentation to still make his plane do you is that all right Rodney Marty Johnny absolutely done yes sir Elizabeth if you ask everyone else in the audience and they're okay with it I'll be good with it if they all look at you got enough they look real let's go with them in 39 public hearing and consideration adopting an ordinance authorizing issuance of general

[3:56:53] obligation refunding bonds, establishing procedures and delegating authority for the sale and delivery of the bonds providing for the security and payment of said bonds providing an effective date, enacting other provisions related to the subjectina banal. Thank you, Mayor Council. As you said, we're here to consider the possibility of a bond refunding for some 2007 certificates of obligation. It would potentially save the city about $800,000, This which is equates to about $65,000 to $70,000 per year over the life of the bond issue. We have here to present this for us Mr. Vince Vial, he's the managing director with Specialized Public Finance and so I'll just let him come up and explain this in a little more detail if y'all have any questions, we'll be happy to answer them. Mayor Council members, good afternoon for the record. My name is Vince Vial with Specialized Public Finance. What we're looking at this afternoon is a ordinance designated as a parameters ordinance, Basically, we're establishing minimum criteria for looking at refinancing one of the city's existing bond issues. The reason we're looking at refinancing this bond issue is to do it at a lower interest rate and achieve a debt service savings for the city. I'd like to walk you all through this presentation. Any questions, please feel free to speak up. Make sure you all understand what we're trying to propose for the city here. The overview of the refunding opportunity. The issue that we're looking at trying to refinance at a lower interest rate is the series 2007-A certificates of obligation. What we're looking at saving by doing this is approximately $819,000 in net debt service savings for the city or about $68,000 annually. What we're trying to illustrate by this spreadsheet that we've put up for the council is on the refunded bonds. Again, it is the Series 2007-A's COs. The maturities we're refinancing are the 2020 through 2027 maturities at an interest rate of four and a half to five and an eighth percent.

[3:58:55] We're hoping to take that interest rate down to approximately 2.61 percent. So the differences in the interest rate is where we achieve our savings. If you look at the box on the far right side of the page, the projected annual savings, you'll see the annual savings there of about $68,000. that's net savings to the city by doing this transaction after all costs have been paid. Any questions so far? Yes. What does that savings go? How do you credit it to our debt goes to the general fund? How do we do that in the books? This particular issue is funded through sewer revenues. There's a transfer from the sewer fund to the sewer debt service fund. We will simply, this will simply be a reduced expense in the sewer fund and in the sewer debt service. That's correct. Any further questions? Question. Yes, sir. So you said the COs from 2020 to 2027? Correct. Why not everything else? When these things were issued, they were issued with a call feature, which means we can't pay them off until a certain date. And looking at the interest rates for each one of the maturities in conjunction with with that 2007 issue, these are the prime maturities that achieve us the best level of savings to refinance those. So these are the best targets for us to attack at this time. We're trying to maximize our savings. If we can't reach a certain savings threshold by refinancing a certain maturity, we're not gonna do that. We're not gonna refinance bonds just to refinance bonds. We're gonna have a savings level that we want to achieve for the city in order to maximize our savings by doing it. So those maturities were the ones that had the, I guess the juiciest target for us to attack. Wow, $800,000. Yes, sir. Thank you. The next slides will establish the minimum criteria in the parameters ordinance that we're considering right now.

[4:00:56] We're looking at trying to achieve at least a 5% present value savings by doing this issue. The maximum interest rate on the refinancing issue be 3.15%. Our model has got 2.6% in it right now. The current market we're closer to that 2.6% interest rate on the refinancing bond. This gives us a little latitude. We're hopeful that we can achieve this level of savings that we're presenting to y'all or better to the city. We're going to be issuing less than $10 million in refunding bonds and we're not extending the maturities by doing this. So we're basically refinancing at 07 issue that goes out to 2027 right now. The refunding bond itself will go to 2027 so we're not extending maturities by doing this refinancing. This slide illustrates the bonds that we're looking at trying to refinance on that 07 issue so it goes back to your question sir. Which maturities are we're looking at doing? We're taking those 2021s on down. We're not attacking the ones before that because as you can see those are about 4.5% so the savings level just wasn't there on those maturities to make it worthwhile doing. And this is an illustration of your water works and sewer system debt. We've got the 2007 ACOs on the far left side that shows the principal and the interest, followed by the 07G0 refunding bonds, the 2011 B's, and from that we take off the savings that we're trying to achieve by this refunding issue. And on the far right side of the page you can see what the annual debt service requirements are for the water and sewer system obligations. So we do have a pretty substantial drop-off in these about in the year 2021 because some of these issues pay off. If Council approves this parameters order ordinance

[4:02:57] this afternoon this will be the timeline that we're looking at trying to achieve this. It'll put us in the marketplace, honor about middle part of November and we'll close this transaction on December 11th. Mayor, council members, any questions? Council? I'm looking for a motion. Motion to approve second. Second. Elizabeth Grindstaz made the motion. Charlotte has seconded it. Sounds like a wonderful idea to me. It's a good deal for the city. Public comment. No comment on what I'm gonna call for the vote. All in favor please say aye. Aye. Opposed nay. Put a 7-0 on it. Thank you, then. Appreciate you, buddy. That's the mayor. Missed by now. Before you leave. Would you do me a favor and if we have another one of these one on the council you see me a magnifying glass? Number thirty first public hearing in consideration of introducing an ordinance amending appendix a fee schedule pertaining to abatement fees and In order to amend Appendix A, Fee Schedule Article A400 section A4002 of the San Angelo Code of Ordinances by restating said section in its entirety to add an administrative fee and mowing fee to re-entitled said section garbage weeds junk and unsanitary conditions abatement fees providing for severability, providing for an effective date by the floors you are on, sir. Good afternoon, Mayor, Council, City Management. The item presented before you is basically just an item needed to tie up the loop in a previous council approval for implementing admin fees for abatements for the city of San Jose for properties that are in violation of coordinates. So that's simply what's before you is the first step in moving forward to charging the new approved $150 admin fee.

[4:04:57] And this is what we talked about two months ago. Yes, sir. motion to approve second. Got a motion by Elizabeth. I have a second, but Johnny, any further comment from Council? I have one question, James. Is this going to be comparable with the commercial rights now so that we're not doing it cheaper than commercial? Our hopes is it'll surpass it, yes, sir. So we won't be competitive in that more. Good. Thank you, James. Public comment on this. Call for the vote. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Opposed, nay. Put a 7-0 on that one. Number 31, consideration of approving an amendment to vision plan component of the San Angelo comprehensive plan update adopted in 2009, specifically occupying approximately 674 acres located at the northwest corner of the intersection of, what is that, slu, I guess that means south, doesn't it? South FM 2288, the NREM 853 Arden Road in western San Angelo, Rebecca Garra. And good afternoon, Mayor Council, again, Rebecca Garra, Planning Manager. The next item before you is a comprehensive plan amendment for property located entirely within the ETJ. It is approximately 674 acres. It is located north and west of South FM 2288 in Arden Road. It is in District 6 and is in the Bluffs neighborhood as well as unincorporated land. So as you can see by the comprehensive plan amendments and citizens in fact in the ETJ, It automatically has a future, well not automatically, it has a future land use designation of rule. So what the applicant is proposing, what I'll show you in the next slide, is neighborhood, transitional, commercial, neighborhood center, and open space. So based on this comprehensive plan that will snip it in the corner, that would be the southeast corner is actually already in the city, so it would be everything that light green area.

[4:06:59] So the applicant, this is their future land use proposal. Now, as council member farmer will tell you, what you're seeing before you is vastly different than what they submitted many months ago, and I'd like to take the opportunity to thank the applicant for working so diligently with staff and, you know, with the public to amend their proposal and scale it back significantly. So as you can see, the yellow portion that you see before you is proposed to be neighborhood. So that would be consistent with single-family detached residential development. let's call it pink areas, our neighborhood commercial. So you would have that smaller scale development of a commercial nature, but what's also permissible within the neighborhood center designation is multifamily. So always keep that in the back of your head, that that too is a allowable use under that particular comprehensive plan or future land use designation. So the red portions I think we all know is commercial. So that can range anywhere from neighborhood sent to from neighborhood commercial to the gamut to heavy commercial. So understand that gamut can range from very, the least intense to the absolute most intense commercial designations offered under the zoning ordinance. So the other two colors that you see, the green is open space and the beige is a transitional area. So those transitional areas can be anything from open space to an actual land use like office. So the point of transitional land use is to go from a more intense to a lease intense. So they have this one area where they would like to propose some sort of transitional use between what could possibly be a heavy commercial zoning and a single family residential zoning like RS1. So just to give you some context of what's out there, as you can see on the south, the extended stay cabins

[4:08:59] are what's actually located on the far west side. So where you see that red in front of you, somewhere along that far western side is actually where the existing and currently expanding site of the extended stay cabins are located, to give you some context of what's out there. So this is what the applicant is proposing. Staff's recommendation is approval because of the close proximity to major thoroughfares, and it provides an effective transition in land uses. We're proposing something a little bit different, and it's something that we also presented at Planning Commission. We're actually proposing a little bit more open space, so we've had a lot of discussions today about having these incredibly intensive land uses next to single family residential. And quite frankly, when the comprehensive plan was adopted and when zoning was passed, sometimes what was in the ground and what was being proposed and what was shown as colors on a map didn't always job. And there wasn't an effective transition of land uses from the most intensive to the least intensive. So what we've done is we've taken a proactive approach. What you're going to see before you is a band of open space. We're going to show you. So it's a band of open space. Now, there isn't any width associated with this. It's just the idea of providing an open space area. It can be landscaped. It could be natural landscaping. It could be barren. It could be a walking trail. The point is that there is a transitional use where the use is recreation and nature, but more importantly, it creates a buffer area. By what could be, let's face it, a very intensive commercial land use or zoning next to a single family residential subdivision. So this is what we brought forward to the Planning Commission. I believe that this creates a real mixed use. It creates the opportunity for a real mixed-use development, where someone could live, work, and play within the same area.

[4:10:59] And it's right next to the park. So imagine having this continuous set of a recreational trail, if you will, leading from the park through this community that people could use. So we brought this forward. So the only change between what you're seeing here and what the applicant is proposing, so I'm going to go back and let you see it, is I've just continued that green next to where where the red is adjacent to the yellow and where the pink is adjacent to the yellow and change that transitional brown, that beige, to an open space area. So again, there is no width associated, could be anywhere from between 20 feet, 50 feet. There is no, none of that is tied to the comprehensive plan amendment. All we're approving today is the concept, if you agree with staff's recommendation, is the concept of creating an open space area between intensive commercial uses and single family detached residential. So that would be figured out at the time of the plating coming in and figuring out how these sites, how all these sites would develop. Now remember, keeping the back of your head, this is still in the NTJ. The applicant would still have to come in and annex into the city. When they annex into the city, because they would come in with ranch and estate zoning, they would have to rezone the property to what would be appropriate and more importantly consistent with the future land use or the comprehensive plan amendment that you all are looking at today. So none of this is in the city today. None of it in the future could be in the city. It's up to the applicant to decide which parts they want to bring in. However, if they want to extend water or any of the infrastructure that's out there in order to service their development, they would have to to annex into the city. So this is what the applicant is proposed. This is what the staff is recommending. So on September 4, the community meeting was held at Rio Contra West. It was very well attended by 18 residents, as well as staff.

[4:13:00] Council Member Farmer was there, as well as the applicants. There were many concerns that were raised. Traffic, water, supply, types of residences to be constructed at annexation timing were some of the topics that were discussed. Some tip are 15th, the Planning Commission unanimously recommended approval. However, they recommended approval subject to the applicant's comprehensive plan or the future land use map that they provided, not staffs. So I wanted to make that absolutely clear. We did propose this concept of an open space. Planning Commission felt it was too much of a burden to place on developers to set aside open space. And that was the recommendation that was made that day. So the action requested today is to approve case VP1403, an amendment to the vision plan component of the comprehensive plan, either with the applicants proposed future land use map or with staff's proposed future land use map. And this concludes staff's presentation. We're available for any questions you may have. Thank you. Charlotte, this is yours. Well, first thing I'd like to ask is the Planning Commission's vote. what was the vote? It was unanimous unanimous. I prefer staff's recommendation in other cities I've known they've called it the belt which is and I call it a green belt which it works out great when you're trying to separate the commercial from the residential. I made it a point to take our city manager and our city planning development manager out there yesterday to let them know what I was concerned about and where it was and the size of homes and what we're dealing with out there and I wholeheartedly will recommend that we do the Green Belt. But my main question to you is why wouldn't we want to go ahead and start annexation this into the city? There are three options, ma'am, if I may. There are three options for annexing into any city because Texas the state the local government code allows for Texas to do

[4:15:00] voluntarily annexations, voluntary annexations, annexations done through an agreement, and involuntary annexations. And, quite frankly, the involuntary annexations can be a very long drawn out and, quite frankly, to be honest, an ugly process. The applicant has indicated they have an interest in annexing into the city in order to receive the services or the infrastructure improvements, which may be we may provide. At this point, it would be a piecemeal annexation, so it would be incumbent upon them to decide. But certainly, I think that's a great question to ask the applicant when they come up to get their perspective. Well, and my concern is, is the exact conditions that we see, as you pointed out, in the man camp that is right out there next door to it, then you have a pipeline placement place across the street. And I don't have a problem with the windmill place, because I think they're beautiful. I wouldn't mind having them out there, or living out there by them, but which used to be called liquor city in our area, and we have very quickly grown up out there. And I'm concerned about the type of constructions, curbs for the streets, gutters, and matching the rest of the community that is out there. I know that a few calls that I've had from the Rio Concho West folks, want to see it brought into the city to help have those controls. And certainly the folks in the Bluff want to see it so that the building constructions meet at least the requirements of what they have there and at Highland Range and at Buffalo Range. Those are my comments. And I'll be happy to make the motion that we accept staff's proposal with the Green Belt with the understanding that you'll continue to research and accession into the city.

[4:17:01] I'll second it. I'd like to hear from the proponent. Good afternoon, council, mayor. Russell Gully, SKG engineering. It has been a process of working through staff with this. And so you've all seen this area developing, especially that along Arden Road. what we're looking at for us to bring this into the city limits we we needed a vision plan future land use that matched our plan our vision for that area if it didn't there would really not be much reason for us to request annexation and bring it into the city limits so this was really this is our first step to move forward with developing this area and bringing it into the city for those services water is very key to this although water through some other arrangements is available outside of the city limits through some other organizations and so and that's why you see some of the development occurring out there as it currently is but our main point of contention is is this open space. We've backed down our intensity on this, and we've gone to the neighborhood and the commercial. And if you look, if you pull up through the City's GIS website and pull up the land use maps, red and yellow touch, just about throughout the entire city, or pink and yellow. And if you read the comp plan and the use for green space is really drainage areas and and and not prime real estate you know we we proposed the the green area the mouse and catching here oh there it is thank you we proposed this

[4:19:03] green area here because we're proposing residential in this area and the topography runs in a southerly direction towards this and and so this would naturally act as kind of retention, storm water, plus we needed rain would bring sewer up through that area. So that area would naturally function as a good open space because of the drainage. This area through here does not function for drainage. There's some low lying areas in this location back in here and back here and in this area that as we develop our plan get into the engineering the layouts we've done some conceptual layouts for those we will have some open space opportunities that that that are in the low areas where we'll take detention pond we're we're looking at you know maybe connecting through the back and the perimeter of this area some trails and things of that nature, but not through here. You know, that area, the way the roads lay out, we would have a street that runs kind of north south along through here, and the developer has a lot of interest in making sure he doesn't do something to harm himself out there. He's investing potentially millions of dollars in this development and building houses, selling commercial. And so he's going to be very careful and cautious. It's not someone else that he's competing with. It'll be himself. And so he will be very cautious with respect to what goes there. And this, again, is just a future land use map. When we request annexation, we'll come in R&E. And then we'll be back before you requesting his own change to CN, CG, RS, whatever will function for that. So this is just big picture from up above.

[4:21:07] And so the green space is really a condemnation of a very usable land. We picked a little bit there because it works topography and drainage wise. And so we would really appreciate Council's consideration of approving what we have proposed. Staff, the Planning Commission supported us wholeheartedly in that with the unanimous vote. And so we thank you for your time. And I'd be happy to answer any questions. Questions, Council? I have more minutes, no questions. Thank you, comment. And then we'll take a shortest question. You can get comfortable, Mr. Gully, thank you. I think what staff has proposed is very interesting. I think that in a way we're setting a policy potentially with this, but I think it's also a very positive one. I think in the end, our city will always have kind of a give and take between the residential and commercial development, which we've seen very recently, and luckily didn't have to discuss too much today. So the addition of the Greenbelt actually, I think, makes the general commercial easier to develop in the future without these constant battles. So I think it's a very creative idea. I don't think it's intended to be simply a drainage way, or a Greenbelt was meant to be a drainage way that the city then would have to maintain as a big mowing mess. But I could see developers dedicating bike travel, hiking trail that then integrated into those that are being developed elsewhere in the community. So I like staff's plan. I applaud you for giving this a try. I think also in the area, there's a lot of concern, as Charlotte said, as to what the character of this area is going

[4:23:11] to be because it remains outside of the city. So to me, this really only increases potentially the value of that land and its value to our community. I thank you for the comments and agreeing and I haven't talked to you previously but I don't really care what the city has done in the past with their red and their green running together or whatever. I have hammered the city manager and Patrick to death about future thinking to the future And when I go to places like San Antonio or Austin, and even over in Granbury, they have beautiful green belts. And they try to capitalize on nature. Well, all of us know out here in West Texas, we have beautiful nature. And to keep the nature going, and the view, and the piece of, I live in the city, but it's like living in the country, I think green belts are absolutely essential. And I don't want to have credit for it. If planning wants to take credit for it, or if this developer wants to take credit for establishing Greenbelts in San Angelo, I think that's a wonderful idea. But my other concern, of course, is water. And I don't want to sit up here and encourage the selling of city water to outside vendors to sell to people in the subdivisions whenever the city should be making the money off of selling the water. When we have the water, we should be controlling the water and have the same restriction options under it being in the city limits. And that is a huge concern of mine. And that's the reason I would like to see the annexation. I'm going to stick with my recommendation motion to approve with the Greenbelt for those reasons. And I already know that annexation procedures are in process. So don't shake your head yet. It's coming. I was looking at Mr. Russell when I said that. We're growing. We need the space. We need the home space. and I commend all of you who are working on it

[4:25:13] to let us grow in that direction. But I do believe that the Green Belt is crucial to helping us in the future with the problems that we've had today and more to come. Ruddy. Well, I'm totally opposite of what they're saying. I believe that we have a system that's worked so far to this point and allowing each one of these developers to, just like Russell said, there's certain areas of this property where there will be green areas because of the contour of the property. So we're dictating to them to put in a green area in areas where they probably are not going to put in a green area out there. So we're telling him exactly what he can do with his property. I don't believe that. I think that if we've worked just fine so far allowing the builders to pick and choose where they're going to do these things and how they're going to do these things. If you look at the area right now in the bluffs, the lower bluffs, right across from the brand new Chick-fil-A. There's commercial lots that are lined all right there, and there's RS1 right across the street right there. If you look at parts of South, and there's the same thing that it goes in there, those people know what they get when they buy in those area, and they're still buying, I sell those houses all the time. So to dictate to them where they're gonna put the green belt areas, I think we go with the recommendation of the board and vote for that. I'm going to vote against your motion on this. Marty? Johnny, you up come in? I'm trying to figure out where the, you mentioned the mancams. Where is that mancamp at? So the mancamp is about right here. Dark pink. In this red area right here. And I know Russell mentioned that they are already getting water from some other organization city could know they are getting water they are getting water they're bringing in water yeah they're bringing in from where the bench is given oh you mean the man can't yes I'm sorry I'm

[4:27:16] bringing in water I don't know what entity they are bringing it in from but they are bringing it in okay I'm kind of leaning towards a so just to provide a clarification, the open space could be made part of the subdivision. The open space could be zoned RS-1. It could be made part of the subdivisions recreational area. It could be left, as I said, without vegetation as a walking trail. It could be used for a myriad of purposes. It doesn't necessarily have to remain green. It doesn't have to be watered, but the point is that it could be integrated within either the commercial development or the residential development to work with how they are how they are building so it could be zoned anything from RS-1 to commercial but be utilized open as open as open space so there would be no vertical development again though you're telling them what they can do with their land you are correct that would be the purpose of a future land use map is to direct people how they can build but I'd rather it just be RS-1 and he can just decide whether he wants to build houses up against the commercial or not build houses up and I'm not going to support the the motion it was made. It's not our place to tell that man what to do with his property. That's his place. He's buying it. He's investing. He's paying. It's not our place to tell him what to do and how much land he has to kill. So I'm certainly voting against that. That's his decision on mine. Anybody else want to do you want to speak? My name is David Jensen. I think Russell's kind of explained sort of Charlotte I understand your concerns and certainly financially for me if we do something commercial in front that, you know, and try to put residential right against it, it may not work, you know, depending what that commercial is. So we intend to explore the market, I guess, for commercial on that

[4:29:17] frontage, which would not be ideal for residential and then do probably a transition of townhouses or patty homes or something in this transition slowly into the residential and it's more important for me than it is for anybody because you know the success of the subdivision depends on something that makes sense. I believe that there will be a place for some walking trails for whatever you know San Angeles maybe not. Austin or Houston, there's not a huge push for people to maybe have the open areas or green areas that some of the bigger cities have. We have a budget in the city. Who's going to maintain it? Who's going to mode it? We don't have a lot of water. So all those concerns are things that we can address in the future. And like Russell said, all we're really trying to do is just kind of define in a broad area of what might go in there. And then once, if we do decide to annex and bring it into the city of Livingston, all this will be brought before you again, for sure. So I mean, it's just kind of broad stroke. So that's why we're asking to allow us what we have without condemning essentially a large piece of the land bordering that with the idea of thought that'll come before you again and that we will certainly do what makes sense for residential and commercial and for community. Thank you. Thank you sir. Any further public comment on this? Anyone else from the Council to have anything to say? No, I'm gonna call for the vote. The motion has been that we allow this by the Planning Department's recommendation to take a Greenbelt all the way around it. It was seconded by Elizabeth. All in on two sides just not all the way around. It's all the way around or two sides. Yes, two sides, two sides. Let's call over the vote. All in favor please say aye. Aye.

[4:31:20] Let's see a hand. All opposed? Aye. Aye. We just killed that one. I'm going to make another move that we accept the proposal as Mr. Jensen put forward and was voted on unanimously by the board. Second. Do you have a motion and a second? Call for the vote all in favor, please say aye. I have a can we have a comment? Yes Yes, I'm sorry. I thought we'd already comment on everything. No not on that motion. Come in I Look forward to seeing what you're gonna do I think you're gonna do a good job with it But I also think that when we're trying to do something that's better in the city That ultimately it's the developer that really makes the difference and if the developer pushes back every time will never get amenities that other communities have and will always be one of those cities that miss the opportunity. So I just asked for your leadership in the future to look at doing things a little bit differently than we have in the past. And I think that you will. We've got some development opportunities that we've never had before. So thanks for what you're doing. further comment one of the the things I might say I live in one of his editions and bought property in another one and he does a good job public comment okay I'm gonna call for the vote the motion has been made that we accept it as the proponent has proposed it it has been seconded all in favor please say Aye. Hye. Posed. May. May. Put a 6-1 on that. Let's move on now to No. 32, which is the first public hearing, said a race introduced in the ordinance in the meaning Chapter 12, Exhibit A is only known as Code of Orthodox city, San Angelo, Z14, 30, Chris, From an ordinance, a meaning Chapter 12, Exhibit A of the Code of Orthodox city, San Angelo, Texas, which said Exhibit A of Chapter 12 at ops.

[4:33:21] Zoning regulations, used districts, and zoning map, accordance with the comprehensive plan, but changing the zoning and classification following property to it, 4750 South Chadburn Street located at the northeast corner of the intersection of South Chadburn Street, and FM 765 and Southeast San Angelo. This property specifically occupies the CF Potter Survey 160 abstract 7278, changing the zoning classification from Ranch and Estate or need a general commercial CG District, providing for Severe ability, providing a penalty, Ms. Guerra. Sir, if I may, be so bold as to ask for you to read the next items caption as well, because I'd like to open both items as they are the same property and allow you to take one motion after another. We can do that. Yes, sir. Item 33, which is a first public hearing. And I may not be able to. First public hearing and consideration of introducing an ordinance, many chapter 12 is every day, he's owning ordinance of the Code of Audience City of San Angelo, Su-1404, Chris Rum, an ordinance of many Chapter 12 exhibit A of the code of ordinance of City of San Angelo, Texas, which said exhibit A of Chapter 12 adopt zoning regulations, used districts and the zoning map in accordance with the comprehensive plan by changing the zoning and classification of the following property to two-whip. 4750 South Chadburn Street located northeast corner of the intersection of South Chadburn Street, and FM-765 in southeast San Angelo, this property specifically Occupies the CF Porter survey 160 abstract 7278 to allow for limited outdoor storage use allowed in the office use category in a proposed general commercial CG district providing for severe ability and providing the penalty Well, thank you your own ma'am. I appreciate it sir So as you stated, this is going to be a rezoning and a special use So it's good the rezoning is going to be a request for approval of a zone change from ranch in the state to heavy commercial Then the special use is to allow for limited outdoor storage for uses allowed in the office use category as defined in the zoning ordinance. So the subject property is approximately 52.5 acres.

[4:35:22] It is 700 feet east of Old Iola and South Chadburn. It is in District 1 in the Glenmore neighborhood. Future land use for this property is entirely commercial. The existing zoning is ranch and estate. the applicant initially came in with a proposal to go to heavy commercial. Subsequent to that, they sent us an email to amend the application for general commercial. Staff agreed with that less intensive zoning. However, the request came in to see if the planning commission and then subsequently the city council wanted to entertain a request for the original request of heavy commercial and because by the time they come to City Council, if they came with a general commercial request, you all wouldn't have the opportunity to review a heavy commercial because it's more intense. So they've come forward with a heavy commercial request understanding that they agree to a general commercial zoning designation decision that should City Council wish to grant it. So here are some photographs of the site. And so staff's recommendation is in fact approval, however, for general commercial, not heavy commercial. Heavy commercial we feel is too intense a use for the site, which is surrounded by residential. General commercial is a better transitional zoning, quite frankly, between the residential uses and commercial uses. The applicant agrees to general commercial zoning, as I stated previously, and it's more consistent with the development trends in the area. It has close proximity to the major thoroughfare of repellent, and in regards to the special use, hazardous material storage is prohibited, and the special use would be limited, so that is the outdoor storage would be limited to a maximum of 1,000 square feet. So on September 15th, the Planning Commission unanimously recommended approval of a rezoning to general commercial and not heavy commercial, as well as an approval of the special use for

[4:37:22] additional storage, subject to four conditions of approval, and we'll get to that. So the action requested. The first action requested today is approved zoning case C-14-30 from Ranch in the State to General Commercial and adopt the ordinance on first reading. Rodney, this is yours. I move that we accept staff recommendation and go with the General Commercial. I second that. Any further comment from Council? Do I have public comment? Motion has been made that we go to CG, General Commercial, Not Heavy Commercial has been seconded. All in favor please say aye. Aye. Any opposed may? Put a 7-0 on it. All right sir. You ready for the next one now Rodney? So the second action requested is to approve the special use case su 14-04 to allow for limited outdoor storage uses subject to four conditions of approval. So these are the four conditions of approval that's consistent with the office use category that'll be located behind the office structures, behind defense, on the lighting any exterior lighting shall be shielded and there shall be no hazardous no storage of hazardous materials. So again approve the special use subject to four conditions of approval and adopt the ordinance on first reading. I move that we accept this as presented by staff. Second. Do you have a motion to accept? I do have a second. Public comment. Council comment. There's no size limitation. Yes sir it's limited to a thousand square feet. Yes, sir. Can you flip back over to your conditions? I didn't read that in there. So the office use category allows I'm sorry the office use category caps it at 10% the site in question is limited to 10 acres It's a 10-acre site even though it's the rezoning was for 52 and a half acres The special use is only going to be for a 10-acre parcel. So it would be a thousand square feet satisfied And that's also in your staff report ma'am

[4:39:24] Public comment. Call for the vote. All in favor please say aye. Aye. Opposed nay. Put a 7-0-1-1. Thank you ma'am. That takes us to number 34 which is consideration of approving the purchase of Sun Gourd Software to improve and streamline the development process. Patrick Howard. Good afternoon Mayor and members of City Council. This presentation is one that we look forward to at least I do, to talk about the idea of purchasing software in order to improve the development process. As I understand, as has been discussed a lot today about development in the city and how much it's grown over the years. And this presentation suggests that we purchase software in order to really keep pace with the trend of development. I think it's one of your top priorities and we wanna talk about that a little bit doing this discussion. So this is just an agenda. As I mentioned, development has picked up significantly over the past few years. This just shows commercial activity, but just in looking at the chart, commercial activity alone has increased about 349% or more, and that's just going through the month of September comparing the number of the evaluations, which doesn't show here, this is a raw number, but showing the evaluations for the last three years. In 2011, the evaluation for commercial permits was at about 19 million. And to date through September of this year, we're already at 87 million. So again, there's been a lot of activity and quite frankly, not much has changed in our processes per se in terms of staffing

[4:41:26] or even the equipment or technology we've been using in order to keep pace with that. So San Angelo, I'm sorry, San Angelo is developing rapidly. We want to keep pace with those trends. I just quoted a reference from a viable source that talks about ways in which you do improve the development process. One of which is to utilize technology and that's the subject of this discussion today. So we're recommending a purchase of software compatible with our existing operating system. And these are the five that we're going to discuss. Naviline planning and engineering. Click to go, planning and engineering electronic plan review, which allows for the submission and review of plans electronically, which also results in a cost savings. Naviline mobile inspections and cognitive business intelligence. So I'm just going to go to the next slide. So as it relates to the planning engineering, what it does is allow you, again, essentially to integrate all these functions electronically, which, again, actually provides for greater efficiency. It improves timelines. It improves the way in which we review plans. And obviously allows for the ability To be notified as to the status of applications, you'll be made aware of or you have access to know where your application is or at least the status of your plans as such. And certainly, again, providing ability for us to do better tracking as it relates to the planning process or the review of site plans, I should say. So click the gov, which will be an application user,

[4:43:27] also by other departments within the city, provides information on a parcel-by-parcel basis and provides for that ability to access this information 24 hours a day. The city does have a click to go to, this would be an improvement or I guess the next iteration of click to go, the third generation, again the idea, the whole idea and the underlying theme here is that that we improve efficiency, we provide greater transparency, and it is also a results and a cost savings related to the development community in terms of what they submit in terms of plans and the like. So just more about the click to go, it talks about the fact that your information is stored locally whereby in the new iteration you're able to, that information is connected to to GIS. Again, there's more securities. I know people have been concerned about some of the breaches and security related to credit cards. This will ensure that that possibility is lessened. And then again, we talked about this idea of being notified as to actions related to some of an activity per minute or the like. So I'm actually going to play just for you. Okay, well what that was is a testimonial. It was a good testimonial. I will fill in and share as someone who's used electronic plan reviews that this is, this again does really provide for the necessary

[4:45:30] ability to submit plans electronically without the redundancy of producing multiple plans and delivering those again the ability to review those players as a staff all collectively and that with the notification process being something that is a nice addition as well and so there are all kinds of efficiencies gained through this idea of looking at electronic plan review and submission. Mr. Howard? Yes ma'am. What does it cost and is it in the budget? It is in the budget and we're getting to that so I'm building up to that. You don't want to oversell, you know, move to approve it this late, this late in the day, you don't have to oversell. All right, so we'll get to there, we'll get to that. I'll go to. No, no, no, you could. Our finest director would like to interject it. No, no, no, no. It's not actually in the budget, but we do have a proposed funding source for you. Okay, so would you like to move on to that or? Yes, I would and I like the idea and I go down and I have several questions. We need the ID. We need our telephone system back where a human enters it as well. That's the complaints I get is that idiotic phone system. See what a pause does it opens you up. Point of order. We can speak about the phone system as well or additional personnel to be able to. Additional personnel probably now to to fill the void that is being filled now with the automated system but that's good. So what we have proposed here are available funds that were made available by the development services department from fiscal year 14. We started out here with The capital allocation recall that we talked about allocating $100,000 to this department

[4:47:34] for capital needs during last year's budget talks. And then we went through and calculated what their savings were as far as revenue and expenditures for fiscal year 14. So here's an itemized list, but I'm going to go to this sheet. You see we had revenue in excess of what was budgeted of $104,000 and expenditures that or less than what was budgeted of 300, close to $340,000. So we're proposing using those amounts plus the $100,000 to cover the expenses that are associated with the software upgrade. So the software itself is $276,000, or close to $277,000. Then there are docking stations and tablets that would be used for mobile onsite for, I guess, Inspect our permits and yes and inspection sorry and then the aerial photo updates was another thing So another thing that we had discussed that were needed that hadn't been upgraded in quite a while And then we expect the department to have carryovers that are projects that are ongoing of about eighty one thousand dollars So that total would come to three hundred and eighty thousand dollars Which would leave remaining funds of a hundred sixty two thousand hundred sixty three thousand dollars that would fault-of-fund balance or you know move to approve this presented second I have question come yes you're done no no the the inspectors is this all the inspectors fire building health that you have included in here no sorry these are the building inspectors okay how are you going to how am I gonna get a permit that if I need a fire inspection and they're not on the same program? Well, actually, these are the mobile inspections related to building. What they do right now is they leave a... I know what they do. Yes, and I hate to even repeat what they do right

[4:49:37] now. But, I mean, what happens is they essentially can't provide the adequate information at the time, and so you'll still have to come in and actually get that information. So what we would like to do is have the ability to do a inspection on site, provide that information to individuals and expedize the process of someone responding and getting an improvement sooner. Well, and I'm not against it. All that I'd like to do, Patrick, is see where we're uniform across. You know, the health department, if it's a restaurant, has to give their okay. We've got $162,000 there. Let's get the health department. Let's get the fire marshals office. get everybody that's involved in this all on the same page at the same time rather than piece milling it to where we've got one guy that's writing on the on carbon paper and another guy that's got a not pad is what I'm shooting for. I think that's a wonderful idea the the the beauty of having technology is that you can buy the different modules and they do they are compatible so what we're doing here is is adding on to modules that we already have and so that ability does exist we hadn't explored that in great detail but certainly I think that that's a great that would be a great addition to the idea of doing inspections out in the field. I'm happy didn't the modules that we purchased accommodate a lot of this they did it does it come it does yes tablets and that's correct we would need to do which is a good idea with the ones that does accommodate the code enforcement because they look at parcel data I'm sorry I'm happy to amend my motion that we include tablets for the additional personnel that Mr. Vartemann just mentioned up to the 16273 and I'll accept her amendment. Now I have one more that. Vartemann you're pushing your left. I know I know I can't help it. I have Patrick syndrome so I'm on a roll here. What the next thing is is education just because they have the equipment and everything I didn't see

[4:51:40] that listed in where you're right it's not on the agenda so no it's in here but I'm going to discuss it hi if we need anything from the left wing that's a very good point there is there is going to be a ramp up period and there should be some education what I would probably suggest with the motion is we talk about tablets we would have maybe say an associated software and potentially the education or training is in the like, okay. Michael Day. Bear, if I could. The financial part of this presentation is information so that you have the ability to make this approval, but we'll need to bring that back in a budget amendment, and so we can bring the additional cost for training back in that budget amendment if you direct us to do it. Along with the other things that we were discussing. Yes, ma'am That's not the posted item. I understand the motion is amending the item, but do you think that I'm not sure we would include other departments? We can approve the motion and add that at the next meeting. It also is stated as to prove the process and I would argue that post all of those are approving the development process. they can't get a permit without the other one signing off and this will standardize it. Okay, very good. Thank you. I would thank for $530,000 we hired somebody to answer the phone and get rid of that automating system. It's gonna free up people to answer the phone when we put the system in. And since you said that mayor anticipate this is one of the tools that we're doing to help improve this process. You've seen how much we've gone up. So we're gonna be bringing some other things to y'all in the future pertaining to the staffing so this is just one of the steps. This is a lot of staffing $530,000 is a lot of staffing we can put some bodies in there to take care of these problems so that

[4:53:43] we can get these things in and out quicker instead of having an iPad to write them. I think we're going to I mean I think we're going to get them in and out Patrick where we'll I saw so I do have a question you did so we will build the forty thousand forty something thousand into our budget every year for maintenance okay Johnny my question is well let me make comment if you would if you saw the the cell phone that the mayor uses you would understand that Let me clarify that. But secondly, how many users would this allow? I mean, are we talking about just all these, they can basically use all these departments, would you say? Well, any department that uses information on a parcel or a parcel by parcel address basis, it would be a centralized database. So anyone could, I mean, any department that has options, obviously, could be read-only, or they'd be able to input data related to and address. So that me as a consumer, as a developer, I didn't go log in, is this going to go on our city website where I can go and see what process, where I'm at, or? Well, if you've got a, if assuming this moves forward, you'll, if you have a permit, or you have a site plan that you submitted, yes, you'll be able to see where you are in the process. also at some point be getting either an email or a text notification as to the fact that your permit is ready to be picked up. And we can do that electronically. I mean we can submit plans electronically. You'll be able to submit plans electronically so you no longer be able to have required to submit let's say nine plan at nine you know nine full draw full fledged drawings. See we went through a we went through a DRC process a month ago or two months ago and I have have no idea where we're at, where it's at.

[4:55:45] So then this would allow me to go in there and... Right. I mean, we don't necessarily envision it for DRC, however we could try to figure that out. I mean, that's a courtesy review where you're submitting very minimal information, but I mean, there is the ability to try to make that more user-friendly in terms of the technology, but we could find ways to try to integrate that as well. The substance is once you get to the point where you're actually ready to submit full full-fledged plans, but there would be a way to try to incorporate that as well. We just need to work through that. Why don't you just call and ask them, John? John, why don't you just call and ask them. I would like to pray out. I have tried that. We go to the boat. I appreciate Tina, Michael, whomever. I'm used to looking at Michael when it goes to finance. Tina, I appreciate your showing unused funds that was available in that department because I've always questioned Where did what do we do with the unused funds at the end of our budget year and you eloquently pointed that that's what the majority of this is being paid for is the unused funds. So I appreciate that. I'll reiterate the motion if I may. My motion is to approve for the purchase, gee I've already forgotten, to approve for the purchase and use possible remaining available funds to educate and purchase for the other departments that Mr. Vardeman mentioned, which was fire and permit. It's the, we, just to prove the purchase of the software to improve and streamline the development process that gets it. Very good. It says development services in small letters. Right, we, other departments are using it.

[4:57:46] This includes other departments already prior to, even without the addition of the 162 potentially, other departments will already be utilizing the software. That's why we always talked about development processes as we articulated the use of the software. So I want to leave. Dwayne. Yes, sir. Got a motion and a second on the floor. Any further comment? Public comment. I'm not gonna even try and restate that. So it has been stated, it has been seconded. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Opposed, nay. Let's put a 6-1 on that one. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Ms. Ramirez, it is your last meeting so you can just tell us what you're thinking. Okay, just let her rip. Mayor, don't hold back. But can we talk about it 10 minutes, right? Let's take a break, Marty needs a break and I think, Marty, you need to leave, don't you? Let's take a few minutes. It's 438 and I'm called thanks back to order. Number 35. First public hearing consideration and introduction of an ordinance of many chapter 4 article 4.04. 0.151 adoption and amendments from City Code of Ordinance to City of San Angelo in order to City of San Angelo, Texas amending chapter 4 entitled Building and Construction. Article 404 entitled Technical and Construction Codes and Standards. Division 4 entitled Plumbing Part 2 entitled Code by amending Section 40415151 adoption and amendments. Section 410.1 entitled approval provided for water coolers to be substituted for drinking funds providing for a penalty for the violation of the ordinance providing for severability and providing for an effective day to the ordinance. Al Torres. Good afternoon, Mayor Council. My name is Al Torres, Bill and official and I'll try to get this brief. Development Task Force was created

[4:59:47] to kind of improve our development process along with new technology. We're looking at other ways of improving the code, finding things that make sense for San Angelo. One of the first things that we brought forward is drinking fountains. This is one of the most common complaints we get is right now the building code requires at least one drinking fountain in pretty much every occupancy in town. The only exception is if you're a historic building or if your occupancy is less than 15. What we are proposing is that we change the language so that if for any occupancy, any occupant type and any occupant load, if only one drinking fountain is required, that they'd be allowed to provide a bottled water cooler in lieu of a drinking fountain. For occupancies greater than that, facilities such as this, for instance, where multiple drinking fountains are required, they'd still have to provide those drinking fountains. But for smaller occupancies, if you just have to have one, you can provide a bottled water cooler. what it is, and this just shows the language itself. What's underlined is new language. Except, ballparks, parks, facilities, because you can't play ASA or contravaluetin, and you can't play any of those type of organizations in a facility that doesn't have drinking fountains. Correct, in larger facilities like that, where the building code says you have to have multiple drinking fountains, then you would still be required to provide those. It's only on smaller occupancies where only one fountain is required. Move for approval. So much second. Okay, you got a second. Motion has been made. I think this is good, Al. Yeah. Any public comment? Council comment? All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Opposed nay, put a 6-0 on that. First public hearing number 36 of an ordinance Abending Chapter 11, pertaining City of San Angelo Water Conservation Plan, in order to

[5:01:47] the City of San Angelo, Texas adopting a revised Water Conservation Plan for the City of San Angelo, entitled the City of San Angelo Water Conservation Plan. dated March 20, 2014, revised September 4, 2014. Said revised plan to replace the City of San Angelo Water Conservation Plan. They did March 2014 in its entirety, more particularly, and to include a new Chapter 1, Chapter 1-2, Entitled Public Involvement and Said Revise Plan. Amending Chapter 11, Entitled Utilities, more particularly by Mending Article 1105, Entitled Water Conservation and Drought Contingency Plan. Section 11.05.002, Entitled Water Conservation Maysers to Reflect Under Said Section of the City of San Angelo. Water Conservation Plan, dated March 22-14, revised September 4-214, adopted by the City of San Angelo City Council here too. providing severe ability, providing for an effective day to the ordinance, Ricky Dixon. Motion to. What are you doing? I'm good with that. This is the first public hearing consideration of an introduction to this ordinance. TCEQ, one who does two in our conservation plan to add a portion in the plan to provide public a place where they could do input on our conservation plan. And that's basically what this amendment is for. is added on page eight under section 1.2 that we advertised and allowed public comment to our conservation plan. Also, the only other change that we made in the plan since we was having to amend it anyway is we took good tele-air force base off of the wholesale listing and just put them under institutional where they better fit. So in a nutshell, that's it. Or we can start on page one of 59 and go from there. Yeah, sorry, approval. Second. That's what we wanted done and John. Any further come in from Council? Public comment? Most all in favor please say aye. Aye.

[5:03:51] Pose may. Put a 6-0 on it. We are now at number 37 consideration on adopting a resolution authorizing San Angelo Fort Concho to institute certain fees and requirements for rental facilities and amenities that Fort Concho providing for an effective date, Robert Bluthardt. You are on, sir. Thank you, Mayor, Council. Pretty much the cover memo covers the tales. It's a good story. We have made many improvements in our various rental buildings. Air conditioning and floors among them. We've had increased activity the last seven fiscal years. The market is up. The demand is up. We looked at the rates of comparable facilities, including those of the city and we feel that these rental rate increases are more than reasonable. The extra income will help us maintain and improve the facilities in the future. We're particularly proud and thankful to Council for the air conditioning and the stables. That 12,728 square foot barn is a great place to have a party and everybody knows it. And we feel that the rates increase on that will us even more in the future. In fact, we're putting in lighting and other amenities in there down the road. So it's a good story and it's a good time to be renting facilities. I stand ready for any questions or issues you may have. Council? Move to approve. Liz, as said, has asked for the approval and Marty, second it. Any further council? Come in. Public, come in. All in favor, please say aye. Opposed nay, put a 6-0 on that. Thank you, Bob. Thank you very much. Okay, we've already done number 38 consideration of authorizing the automation of payments for West Texas water partnership invoices Tina Thank You mayor council members

[5:06:00] So we discussed this a little bit earlier in executive session and we've discussed it before that about a year ago We were directed to bring every invoice to executive session prior to making payment on it for the West Texas water partnership this would just allow us to go ahead and pay those invoices as they come do and then to continue to brief the council during executive session on maybe a quarterly basis or whatever it is that you would desire. And we do have an agreement with Abilene and Midland and San Angelo that we pay a third of this so we know we're going to get the bills. We have been late paying our share that's caused Ricky some consternation and this is this is just a housekeeping item. to get us back on schedule. Motion to approve from Charlotte to Debra second from Marty any further council comment public comment all in favor please say aye. Aye. Opposed nay put a 6-0 on that one. Thank you. Thank you. Okay we've already done 39 so we'll go to 40 this is consideration of selecting FUGGROW food grow road where incorporated for professional services per request for qualifications or FQ ESO114 for professional services, professional services for payment data collection and payment management with in an amount not to exceed $185,000 budgeted NFY 2014-15 authorizing staff to negotiate a agreement and substantially detach form and authorizing city manager to execute said agreement, Carl Bednarts, you are on, sir. Okay, good afternoon, Mayor, Council. I know the roadway streets are a big priority for the Council and the citizens, and this is one way that's gonna help us improve those. Our CIP program we have now, we've got a lot of roads on there. This is gonna really identify our inventory for all of our roads and a condition for the roads that we have. We went out with this RFQ for consultants.

[5:08:02] in about five proposals across the country and seven were returned and had a really good return rate on that and really good consultants that were gave us information back on this. For GROW, Roteware was the most qualified provider. They were out of Austin, Texas. They're also using KSA engineers which they're working out the airport now as a local presence on the contract. It's going to be doing some administrative work with the contract so we do have some local presence on our contract. What this country is going to include is going to be a pavement condition survey of our 1147 miles of the city's network. Every road, every street, it's on our system, will be analyzed. This will be linked up to our GIS system and also include any kind of structural evaluations we may need, some places that maybe need some more in depth evaluation. It's going to give you a summary of budget needs for the information that's presented, and it's going to give us a production model for future pavement conditions. This is an example of equipment that's going to be used. I kind of liken this to the professor gadget if you watched that cartoon back years ago. This machine, this van, has got lasers on it, it's got computers in it, it's got cameras on it all around it. It does a lot of stuff and it's going to be going over all our streets. It's what the proposal is. One of the reports we're getting back is a PCI score, which is a pavement condition score, pavement condition index score. And this is an example of a map that it's not San Angelo, but it'll show all our roads from a different color perspective 90 to 100 being, you know, comparable to an A in school down to 0 to 59 B and F and it will show where our failures are and where our roads are needing attention.

[5:10:02] Another report that's going to be generated will be a network level output that will show where we might want to overlay, where we might need rehabilitation and reconstruction and those type of things. It also gives us a budget analysis for our various plans and shows us the lowest cost to meet our objectives and we're coming back to you with these reports that show where we are now and if we apply say 10% increase or a certain percent increase where we might be able to elevate our scores and our condition of our roads or if some happens we want to lower our funding, what would happen say five years from now, that type of thing. So I've got this in front of you, I think you read this earlier that the money is budgeted for this, up to 185,000, we'd just like permission to go ahead and to go shape with for grow and get a contract started. And they're out of Alston but they're using some San Angelo people to do the very good. Any comments from Council questions? Yes, I'm gonna sound like Mr. Mayor here. I'm sorry I don't understand why we need to spend $185,000 to tell us what we already know that we need, what we already know that's going to cost us, and where we already know the streets are in bad shape. We've had reports for the last six, seven years of the streets that are bad that need to be done, what's wrong with them. We've had estimates provided to us in order of cost to the tune of $153 million. We've had reports provided to us as to the priority need, meaning safety and concern and all. Now we want to spend $185,000 more to tell us what we already know, so I'm running a real big negative here Okay, well we already know part of that in my opinion I mean we know see Bell Street for instance when everybody can probably Given that that streets that needs to be rebuilt

[5:12:04] But there's other parts of the street where we may be say we need to build rebuild the street Well, maybe only three blocks of that street needs to be rebuilt and the rest of it maybe could be done with an overlay. And it's really going to be a more in-depth study and review of the streets than we've ever had before. Also, I do want to point out that this information is also essential, Ms. Farmer. There are certain streets that the report will come back. That will show us that if we take care of those with a maintenance of this ACO code overlay, it may save it from going to a total collapse, where in the future, maybe a year or a couple years down the road, we had to completely reconstruct it. So coming up with a plan and looking at the condition of all the streets allows us to come up with that eight-year plan to say which streets will be worked on and which can be saved immediately. Because what I envision happening here is we have a reconstruction project going on at the same time that we have a maintenance project going on. And we wanna save those streets that can be saved right now. And in order for us to do that, we need to know exactly which of those we have to plan for the first year, second year, third year, four year. So this really is something really essential for us to study. Well, I guess I'm not comprehending, because it seems like that we come up with a report and a plan every time we get a new department head or a new manager or let's come up with another plan that keeps telling us and keeps telling the council what we need, what we need, but we're not doing. We're not repairing any of the streets, because it cost us more money than we've got. And I don't want to spend another $185,000 on what we already know. One thing I do, the last study that we were actually working off of was based more on our arterial roadways and collector roadways. And the study, as best I know it, was over 10 years ago.

[5:14:04] And again, like you said, we had this wonderful plan. We put it in place. It was even prioritized at that point in time, based on all the different factors, from safety, amount of travel on the roadway, all that sort of thing. Although it's put into place, great plan, no money was ever approved to it. So we now have another 10 years worth of wear and deterioration on those roadways. Again, and two, we, to my knowledge, haven't ever looked at any of our residential streets and some of those issues that we have in our residential areas to know whether those are reconstruction areas, those are millen overlay areas, or if we can't get by another 10, 15 years with just a good seal coat and overlay program, or are we gonna be wasting our money on a seal coat because we're putting a seal coat on something that's already failed and needs to be repaired. And so do we wanna spend that money, whether it's 10,000 or 100,000 on that one street segment, do we want to spend that money on that or would we rather have those funds and move them somewhere else to where they're better utilized. But you just said that you know we've always had some great plans in the class, some great plans we never have any money to fulfill those plans. How is spending an additional $185,000 going to give us the money we're going to need with all the new streets that it's going to come up with in the residential areas that we've never looked at before. Mayor. Yes, ma'am. When I worked for the City of Evelyn, we were doing this 20 years ago. We were using basically nuclear, would you say, x-ray? There's lasers. Laser. And there is some subsurface x-rays. And we were able then to demonstrate, I guess, with fact where the failure was over sort of of an emotional or sometimes where political pressure was. In my current industry, we use the same thing. It's called a sparey car, and it's essentially

[5:16:04] an x-ray mobile that goes down the track. And we are always finding failures or near failures with that x-ray equipment prior to ever seeing it with the naked eye. So I think this is a good investment, but Councilwoman Farmer is right. If we don't act on the information, we've wasted the $185,000. But I think going forward, if we're really serious about streets, this gives us more factual data than we've had before. That's correct. Mike, Mike, you're just going to say so. Well, I hope that this develops a plan for us that we can match financing to. We've talked about some financing options to generate serious money, to address some of these issues. and ideally, we would begin matching those debt issues or whatever financial strategy we use to these needs. And we're finally putting some money in the street. We've not done that here to follow up. Yes, we do now have a, we've got $4 million this year. We're putting torch rates. Yes, we have a good maintenance fund built up now. Now it's the capital outlay that we have to work with. I believe Mike has brought some plans, and Tina have brought some plans prior to initial plans, just talking how would council like to work these. And I think that with this study as we move forward, this study not only will show us what it is lacking, or where it's lacking, and where we have failures, and it's gonna help us take funding opportunities that Mike and Tina have brought to us and said this is a possibility, and help us meld all that together. this company will do that as well, too. I hear what you're saying. How do we come up with the additional money that you're saying that this is going to need, that this is going to find in things we don't know about now that need to be taken up before we have a massive failure? When we haven't, even if we have $4 million this year,

[5:18:05] it doesn't put a dent in 153 million. So where are we gonna come up with the additional monies to address what you're anticipating that spending this 185 is going to find us? Ms. Farmer, we're not going to spend, of course you do understand, we're not going to spend that money all at once. It's going to be over an 80-year period, and it has to be planned out. And the only way that we'll know what's on the ground, if the base... You lost me. What's going to be spent overnight, your period? I mean, as far as the money, as far as... 185 to the 150 million. No, my 185,000 initially is what we need to figure out what's wrong, what type of work needs to be done. Now, we have discussed, and even in our sessions that we had, as far as the planning session we had with the city council, is that we are looking at an eight-year plan that we're trying to develop a way to make sure that we can fund this program, the street program over eight-year period, but we need to make sure that we understand exactly what needs to be repaired, how it needs to be repaired over that eight-year period. Again, I do agree with you, Ms. Farmer, $185,000 is wasted money if we don't have a plan and if we don't do anything with it, shame on us because that is good money that the taxpayers are pain and we need to make sure that we're taking care of that. But again, in order for us to know exactly which streets to work on over these next eight years, we need to have this, we need to make sure that we have this in place first. And you know, when you're talking total reconstruction versus just milling overlay, you're talking, you know, 135 to $140 a square yard versus $30 a square yard in price difference. So we definitely want to make sure in this study will help us do that, make sure that we're actually applying the right application to the right segment of road and that we aren't wasting our tax dollars on something that we may not have to as well. I think it is these are good questions and I think Charlotte you're right if we don't follow through then it's money was spent that was unnecessary.

[5:20:05] But what convinced me was that when Shane explained, I think it was Shane that explained the difference in cost between complete reconstruction versus millin overlay. And it's not that we're attempting to find problems we haven't seen, we're attempting to find areas where we don't need to reconstruct, and we can simply get by with the millin overlay and reduce that cost to avoid those unnecessary costs. And so we're anticipating that over the eight-year cycle, this plan will more than pay for itself many times over through street repairs, which could be, or street reconstruction, which could be executed with mill and overlay instead of having to recreate the face and then build up from there. So we're hoping this saves money, not creates additional expenditure. Shane, I want you to understand I've got all the fights in the world in you and everything that you tell me. It's never been anything different than what you have said and I trust that. However, based on performances that the entire city's been able to pay for in the last 10 years, I cannot support spending additional money when we've not had enough done to repair what we've had or to go forward in 10 years. It's nothing against you. I just got a draw line somewhere. Yes, ma'am. And I totally understand if the council's not committed to seeing this through and funding what needs to be done moving forward, then you're correct, then we are just creating another study to put on the shelf and not do nothing with and spending money. But if the council is committed and it is the number two priority for the council for streets, then this study I believe is a very vital part of what we need to move forward with. Historically the money has not been there either. I mean I know that the city was growing one and one and a half percent per year. We are experiencing some growth at this point. And we need to make absolutely sure that those additional monies are coming in. We aren't putting back into our infrastructure, that we are taking care of those needs

[5:22:06] that we had 10 years ago. We can't base this on what happened in the last 10 years, as long as our commitment is strong for the next 8 to 10 years moving forward, then we should be okay. But right now, we do have a lot of promise with the growth that we've experienced in our area that we foresee continuing. and this is an opportunity at this point to address those streets and get them done now. Somebody help me. I will. I'm very much in support of fixing our roads in our streets. I think that it should be one of our, it is our number two and I'm not sure it shouldn't possibly be number one. And it is 153 million or whatever to do them, but I think we need to make sure we do everything we can to get the biggest bang for our buck. So I move approval. Second. John? Carl, I just wanted to also ask a couple of questions. The 185,000 says it was budgeted. Was it budgeted for this type of service? Yes, exactly. It was budgeted for this specific type of service. Yeah, we're talking about doing this last year when the budget was being prepared. And then I know that this company, Food Grow, It does say they were the most qualified provider, but they were were they how were they in as far as price goes with this Well, if I blow high what what this process does is you selected by our qualifications? We did by interview and by what they've done in the past by References checking references. We don't do any They don't really bid on this we check qualifications first and we'll get the most qualified which they are then we will sit down with them Trying to negotiate a fee under this hundred ninety five thousand And if it passes, then they would drive all around town and just x-ray every street in town. Yeah, we would use x-rays on roads. We're using lasers. They can see the cracks.

[5:24:08] They've got different... ...in a trading radar. ...gram and a trading radar. Wow, that sounded... Something's like a thumper, like you see in the old field, it thumps around. I would throw in, if this is approved, throw in Pecan Street from the loop going north to 14th Street for me. Remember that street? Pecan from the loop going north to 14th Street. Penetrate that one first. This will also take the politics out of it, which is probably the reason I'm going to support it, because it's a lot of money. Do I have a motion to approve? Marty, I think I got a second from Elizabeth. Do I have further comment from Council? Do I have anything from the public? All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Opposed, nay. Name. Let's put a one, two, three, four, five, to one in favor of. Number 41, consideration possible action regarding Tom Green County. Provision for storage space for municipal records and renovation of the ADB keys building and related matters. Ms. Cranston. I'll take a shot at this. Mayor, I was speaking to one of our county commissioners, and we were just talking about some services that they're in need of from the city of San Angelo, being, I think, inspection services on the renovation of the Ed B. Keys building. There are many things that we do in concert with the county, and I believe have an inter-local agreement, which probably defines what those relationships are. One thing that, you know, we do use storage space within the EdB keys building for our own municipal records. But the county is, I guess, looking for maybe more incrementally than what we would like to do. Some provision where we could assist them with the inspection. And I would, I think that really should be something larger.

[5:26:09] But for the purpose of today's discussion, we're looking at how that relates to our benefiting from the storage space in the basement of that building right now. A few years ago we were looking at ways that we could share responsibilities, reduce taxpayer burden, and so I think that conversation needs to continue again for the purpose of today. It's just limited to this item. So what are you proposing that we did? I'll let the city manager articulate that since he wrote the the caption. Okay, sir. We'd like to move forward, of course, with agreement with the county, which is what we're doing at this point, to make sure that we are, in fact, exchanging services, you know, for the services that are being provided by the county in exchange. For example, the council member mentioned that we do have our record stored at the he's building. Well, in fact, that's where the inspections are are taking place and they're requiring or requesting that the city provide a service. So what we'd like to do is move forward and working with the county and exchange with first services for the storage, then we'll provide the inspection services as well. So that's something that we've already started working on. Well, what, done? Well, one of the things that if I remember right, the city paid for renovation of those facilities down there to be able to store those goods. And one of the reasons that we don't do inspections is because the county doesn't pay for permits or ask for approval of anything that they're doing. But they are now, that's the difference. And we do have some expenses with regard to the storage space. We do, we do have a utility cost as far as the storage space is not, It's air conditioned lit whenever we have to go by and access those records.

[5:28:10] So there's other fees associated with it, of course. Is that area going to be air conditioned and heated regardless if we had stuff stored there? Or is it based on a square footage for the bill? Well, the city has their records. We only have, it's kind of like closet space. It's not air conditioned. There is sprinkler heads, but that's it. Lighting, but no heater air. And those details will be turned out. Elizabeth, you started this. You want to move one way or the other? Sure, I'll make a motion that we approve moving forward with an agreement with Tom Green County. For some, I guess, what would we say, Daniel, for inspection services, but where the city is credited some way through the agreement we have on the storage space. You wanna clean that up? Well actually, actually the cleanest way actually would be to say an exchange of services. Exchange of services, thank you. That's what Lisa had suggested. Somebody will say a good thing. Well that's a wide scope, exchange of just this service or exchange of services. Well specific to this, we're looking at the storage. What's the value, I'll say. Yeah, that's second task that you said that one. Do you have a motion to approve? And this is a partnership between the city and the county, which benefits all of our tax members. It has been seconded by Marty. Any further council discussion? Do I have public discussion? All in favor please say aye. Aye. Any opposed nay? Put a 6-0 on it. Consideration and possible action on matters discussed and executive closed session if needed. The only thing that we talked about in executive that would need to take a vote on is the payment of the West Texas Water Partnership, the summary of invoices for the month of July, August,

[5:30:13] and September, the third quarter, 35,124 dollars and 16 cents. Motion to approve by Charlotte, second by Marty, any further discussion, public discussion. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. nay put a 6-0 on her consideration of approving various board members for counseling designated council members a development cooperation one floors SMD three to an unexpired term February two fifteen Fort Concho museum board Kathy King SMD six to an unexpired term January two seventeen sure all brick in SMD four to an unexpired term January two seventeen planning Commission Terry Jackson SMD to an unexpired term January two fifteen public arts commission Terry covert SMD one to a full term April two sixteen somebody make them move approval second got one motion but Marty second by Charlotte do I have further consideration public consideration all in favor please say aye aye opposed nay put a 6-0 on that consideration but nominating citizens to serve on the charter review committee and approving said nominations by counseling designated council members the mayor's nominee is Jim Turner SMD 1 I have nothing has he found someone yes he has no nomination yet SMD 2 Harry Thomas SMD 3 Floyd Crider SMD 4 Joe Munoz SMD 5 John Mark Hogue SMD 6 Candy Poo somebody give me a motion motion to approve second Johnny's got the second Elizabeth's got the motion further further discussion public discussion all in favor please say aye opposed nay put a 6-0 on it announcements consideration the future agenda item start with you Elizabeth nothing more than a meeting Ricky and I have at 6 30 with members of residents of SMD 5 done yeah we didn't got to it

[5:32:15] yet. I'm 45. Well gee, I'm done. I'm already 47. I had a statement that I should have made this morning and I'm sorry I forgot. Right quick. We did have the Port to Plains Board meeting in Del Rio, Texas and Acuna. It was a very successful meeting. It was 250, 300 people strong that was there. The Del Rio Bank was a host as well as the Acuna Chamber of Commerce. We did tour some four manufacturing companies that were down there and that are anxious about the highway improvements that Porto Plains has been behind and supporting from Del Rio all the way to the Canadian border and if I'm forgetting anything, I'm going to yield to Elizabeth to bring me up to date other than there are 11 new board members which about eight of those where new board members retained and the other two were new. I think the other significant thing to say is that the Fernando Madero has been successful in now achieving memberships in Quauella and Chihuahua, or Quauella, I suppose, and also looking at Cinaloa. So those are the cities as well as the Conocentric. So those are happening now after about two years of hard effort. Have they paid their dues yet? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. or 16 years, a lot of things are coming to fruition, which is a delight, but I want to add that San Angelo is the third highest paying member,

[5:34:16] whenever you take in the city, the county, the chamber, and then you add the businesses in San Angelo, Tom Green County, who are also members. We are the third highest paying member of the Port to Plains, and to me, that carries a pretty big stick and a pretty large voice and we do have for our membership, what is it, Mr. Mayor, seven votes, 11 votes, something like that for our board member and our representative. So to what we decided several months ago to include the county on these meetings and stuff, it's very important I would think and would promote. Don't know anything else unless you wanna ask of it. John, do you have any future agenda items? Marty, just don't forget my zoning ordinance amendments. I have none either. Number 46, consideration, possible action regarding the scheduling of city council meetings in November and December of 2014. Sorry, Mayor. I just wanted to make sure that we were on schedule for both meetings for November and December. I put the schedule in, it's in your background. I would hope that we can stay on the typical schedule because this is entirely too much. I agree. I'll be here in November for both of them. Both of them. Both of them. Because November will still be the first and third. Mayor, I'll be here in December. Same. I'll be here in December. Number two. OK, just want to make sure. Thank you. What we look on the left wing. Yeah. Mayor, I did want to say one thing. I wanted to tell Ms. Ramirez, and we didn't get to, that it's been a pleasure working with you, ma'am. You two have always been there for me, and I really totally hate to see you go. Is there anything else we can do to keep you? I don't think there is, but really, I think you're A1.

[5:36:17] I mean, you're top notch and buta is very lucky to have you, and again, I hate to see you go, but I wish you the best, and you want to be close to your daughters, that's fine. I totally understand, but again, from the bottom of my heart, Thank you for being there for all of us. Well, thank you. And I know I got emotional earlier, and I wasn't expecting that, but thank you. And I do want to say thank you to all staff, the council, because without your support, I would not be here either. And I know with your support, I did bring a lot to the table. And I appreciate everything, and it's been a lot of years, and it was a very difficult decision for me. But children move, and kind of want to move with them. So, thank you, thank you for the opportunity. Well, the mayor put it exactly my feelings. You came as city secretary, city clerk, same time I swore in on council just about and you have been tremendous in helping me to learn the system and guiding me where to go to get the information or most of the time providing the information that I needed. You've never questioned or hesitated And I do appreciate that going to miss you. I think your work over that many years has just been almost flawless. And when there is a little minor item, you are real quick to correct it. And it's just been a pleasure working with you. Hate to see you go. Wish you all the best. And I hope that Council has a big saying on her replacement because folks like her are hard to find. Yes, they are, absolutely. You do you have some one in mind boss? I have we have well I won't go into any detail right now, but we do have some some applicants and we do have You make a good secretary John All right, I'm sorry. I thought I thought that was the last item one No, we have the consideration of setting the 215 city council meeting schedules about the first and the third Tuesday of each and every month

[5:38:21] one why do we want to change from what it's been no we're not changing because because I'm leaving but I just want to make sure that everybody was aware and you have your meeting set out there are no holidays that may conflict with your schedule just giving you an update but everything remains sustained the first and the third two states somebody help me on 48 move adjournment all in favor say aye. Aye. It is 518 and this meeting is thankfully finally over.

Transcribed 2026-07-27 with faster-whisper (base.en) · source: youtube.com/watch?v=xuvgACaL8VU